Kentucky Kingdom (SFKK, KK) Discussion Thread

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Re: The Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom (SFKK) Discussion Thread

Postby kidcoaster 2 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:12 pm

ginzo wrote:
Also, if Six Flags paid for Chang, wouldn't they get some sort of amendment to the lease allowing them to keep it no matter what.


Six Flags didn't put Chang in. Chang opened for the 1997 Season and the park was sold to Premier at the end of that season.

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Re: The Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom (SFKK) Discussion Thread

Postby Reality15 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:27 pm

I went on the Jefferson County website to try and find out what plots of land are owned by Six Flags. From the looks of it, "KKI LLC" owns the land on the south side of the park, south and west of the waterpark. This would include:
-Chang
-T2
-Penguin's Blizzard River
-Twisted Twins
-Mile High Falls
-Go-Karts

But does not include the waterpark, Thunder Run, Top Eliminator Dragsters, ferris wheel, or picnic pavilions. The funny thing is that it looks like Twisted Twins was built on land owned by someone else, being Mary and Douglas Gillim and First Kentucky Trust Co.

All in all, it adds up to right around 20 acres, the amount of land Six Flags is listed as owning in the area. The entire park sat on 58 acres, 38 of which were leased from the fairgrounds. I would venture a guess to say that this is the land Six Flags owns and that those are the few rides they can remove from the property.

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Re: The Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom (SFKK) Discussion Thread

Postby rizash » Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:42 pm

And this is where we hit the wall where nothing makes sense... Did sf just take over the lease? I doubt it would have cost them much then.... If they purchased the existing rides equipment etc. then it gets muddy. If the lease says that everything currently installed there stays on the land.... They're in trouble. If it says rides installed by six flags become part of the property, then older rides might be grandfathered in and still be part of sf property, since they bought the park.... If chang wasn't complete, sf probably had to pay it as part of the park purchase price. I don't get this clause at all, it's like renting a house where your posessions and cars become the property of the land owner. If it is like that, then six flags got burned horribly. If six flags had to pay the previous park owners for the rides, and still has to leave them with the land owners... That just sucks.

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Re: The Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom (SFKK) Discussion Thread

Postby rizash » Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:50 pm

Thank you reality! See that would make sense then. They bought that part of the park and those rides from previous owners.... So the only disputes would be lease related not property related. And since the state played it down as sad that chang left, it seems sf owns most of kk then. Since the lease was broken sf should be in the clear and right. It seems both sides were trying to make the other seem like the bad guy to shine their own shoes...

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Re: The Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom (SFKK) Discussion Thread

Postby CPmaverick » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:08 pm

I still don't understand how Six Flags is not allowed to remove the rides that they own. Just because Six Flags has rides sitting on someone else's property, doesn't mean the landlord can claim ownership of those particular rides.
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Re: The Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom (SFKK) Discussion Thread

Postby JEAPUgrad » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:18 pm

SharkTums wrote:
I don't know whether this was the smartest or most obnoxious thing Six Flags has ever done. Could possibly be both!


I'm going with brilliant move.

Whether or not you agree with the Fairgrounds side or the Six Flags side, you have to admit that Shapiro and company probably learned a valuable lesson after the Cedar Fair and the Geauga Lake fallout.

Six Flags put such a spin on the story ahead of the Fairgrounds and they solely put the fault on the Fairgrounds making them having to go on the defensive instead of the offensive.

I think it's brilliant if this was the game plan all along, to shut down SFKK, and to get Chang, a B&M coaster that arguably belongs to the Fairgrounds out of the picture.

Not to mention they were selling Season Passes at a ridicously low rate possibly knowing what they were going to pull. Sure they are going to return a lot of the monies they collected on these passes but this all the passes purchases in late 2009 will help the 4th Quarter numbers when those are released and I'm sure they've gained a little interest on those funds from their financial institution.

In the business scope, I think it was unethical what Six Flags did but brilliant none-the-less.

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Re: The Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom (SFKK) Discussion Thread

Postby Airtime&Gravity » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:24 pm

CPmaverick wrote:I still don't understand how Six Flags is not allowed to remove the rides that they own. Just because Six Flags has rides sitting on someone else's property, doesn't mean the landlord can claim ownership of those particular rides.


It's all in the contract. While it doesn't make sense, we have to remember that it was Premier Parks who bought the park, and they aren't remembered for making smart business decisions. I hope this problem can be resolved, but if not, there isn't much Six Flags can do.

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Re: The Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom (SFKK) Discussion Thread

Postby rizash » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:32 pm

Why make sf the bad guy? They paid for a lot of the park and bought a lot of the rides. If the owners of the property were unwilling to cut their profit to allow sfkk to make money... They had to expect this. Don't bite the hand that feeds....

Btw: where is gl on that list? Sf land or state land? Stuff on state land might be out of luck, the rest can be moved.

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Re: The Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom (SFKK) Discussion Thread

Postby monsterfan99 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:40 pm

^Even with the land on the other side of the road, they do not own all of it. The Thunder Run area, water park and Giant Wheel are large areas of the park.

CPmaverick wrote:I still don't understand how Six Flags is not allowed to remove the rides that they own. Just because Six Flags has rides sitting on someone else's property, doesn't mean the landlord can claim ownership of those particular rides.

I'm willing to bet there is a part in the lease that says they must improve the park by X amount of dollars each year. Removing Chang (or any other ride) would count against that number. So even if they own it doesn't mean it is theirs to do with as theme please.

One does have to remember there are not many rides in the park that Premier or Six Flags put in. Outside of the water park and some kids rides, only 5 rides are post 1997 in the park: Twisted Twins, Greezed Lightin', Road Runner Express, Blizzard River and the Sky Coaster. Even then, it is debatable on who paid for the Twisted Twins ride as it's timing based around the sell.

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Re: The Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom (SFKK) Discussion Thread

Postby Reality15 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:17 pm

rizash wrote:Btw: where is gl on that list? Sf land or state land? Stuff on state land might be out of luck, the rest can be moved.

Greezed Lightnin' is on the north side of the park, land leased from the fairgrounds. Here's a complete list of who owns what rides if you go according to the property lines:

FAIRGROUNDS:
Thunder Run
Roller Skater
Road Runner Express
Greezed Lightnin'
Breakdance
Bluebeard's Bounty
Tin Lizzies
Bumper Cars
Enterprise
Thrill Park Theatre
Himalaya
Giant Wheel
Flying Dutchman
International Carousel
The Zeppelin
All 11 children's attractions
Skycoaster

SIX FLAGS:
T2
Penguin's Blizzard River
Mile High Falls
Twisted Twins
Top Eliminator Dragsters (what's left of them)

Going off that list, we don't know if Six Flags or the Fairgrounds owns the rides that were installed prior to the sale to Premier Parks at the end of 1997. If they aren't, then T2 and Mile High Falls move over to the Fairgrounds' list.

The only part I find confusing about this is some of the removals already. For example, the rides that went to Worlds of Adventure in 2001, the Vekoma boomerang that's now at Six Flags New England. If Six Flags didn't own the rides, then how did they have the right to move them to a different property?

I know absolutely nothing about the lease agreement or any contracts that Six Flags had with the fairgrounds, but I would wager a guess that, from the sounds of it, any rides on the Fairgrounds' land at the end of the lease (or upon termination) is the property of the Fairgrounds, but until that point they have full rights to remove rides as long as some kind of replacement is made. For example, the value of Road Runner Express had to be equal to the value of the boomerang they removed to install it. Again, this is all speculation on what I think the contract might be.
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