Six Flags Great Adventure (SFGAdv) Discussion Thread

Great Adventure: Where is the promised growth?

Tommy's Inn at Millstone, a log cabin of a building across Route 537 from Six Flags Great Adventure, isn't really an inn, but it doesn't stop the theme park's visitors from calling the restaurant in search of a place to stay.

 

Owner Tommy Savastano is tempted to tell them he is willing to rent out his office.

 

"Name your price," Savastano said with a grin. "It's a slow day."

 

As Six Flags Great Adventure opens for its 44th season, elected officials think they are finally taking steps that would attract developers who want to build hotels and restaurants on Route 537, bringing ancillary businesses that are part and parcel to just about every other giant amusement park in America.

 

They have reached an agreement with the theme park and at least one other developer to help pay for a project that would deliver the water service that businesses need to operate.

 

If the project goes through, it could bring to an end a question that has been asked now for generations. Six Flags Great Adventure attracts visitors from New York and Philadelphia who have easy access from the New Jersey Turnpike, the Garden State Parkway and Interstate 195. Why is the closest brand-name hotel nine miles away?

 

'Coming to the table'

 

"You have plenty of people coming to the table now," said Mayor Michael Reina, who has pushed for commercial development along Route 537 since he was elected nearly a decade ago as a way to offset property taxes. "We're going to have some movement."

 

Savastano, 55, of Jackson, has owned and operated Tommy's since he bought what was the Millstone Pub 17 years ago. He affixed the word "inn" to reflect his plan to make it more inviting to his guests. And he thought he would benefit from an influx of visitors to the park, which is a little more than a mile down Route 537.

 

But he pointed to woods across the street.

 

Route 537 divides Monmouth and Ocean counties with Millstone to the north and Jackson to the south. There's a McDonald's, Burger King, Wawa and Dunkin' Donuts adjacent to Tommy's in Millstone. There's a modest strip center featuring Farley's Homemade Ice Cream in Jackson. And all around are acres of woods, whose trees hide a theme park that boasts of breakneck thrill rides.

 

The rural landscape is an anomaly for similar tourist attractions. A check of the TripAdvisor website shows Hershey Park in Hershey, Pennsylvania, has two dozen hotels within three miles of its gates; Sesame Place in Langhorne, Pennsylvania, has six hotels less than a mile away; Six Flags New England in Agawam, Massachusetts, has 10 hotels within five miles.

 

Six Flags Great Adventure? The theme park partners with Hotels Unlimited, a West Windsor-based hotel operator, to offer discounts to visitors. The closest, the Radisson Hotel in Freehold Township, is 15 minutes away; the farthest, the Doubletree in Tinton Falls, is a half-hour away.

 

"Six Flags Great Adventure, Safari and Hurricane Harbor provide ample entertainment for guests to span a multi-day visit," spokeswoman Kristin Siebeneicher- Fitzgerald said in an email. "Many of our guests travel from out of state and even internationally, and they would certainly benefit from hotels nearby."

 

Six Flags Great Adventure attracted about 3 million visitors in 2015, making it the 19th most-visited amusement park nationwide, according to a report by the Themed Entertainment Association, a trade group.

 

Grand plans

 

It wasn't supposed to be this way. Great Adventure's first president, Warner LeRoy, told the Asbury Park Press just before its opening in 1974 that a hotel was part of the park's future plans. Six Flags, the amusement park giant, acquired Great Adventure three years later. And the idea gained and lost momentum over the years.

 

Six Flags itself could be the biggest beneficiary. It owns 2,200 acres. And it received approval from the Jackson Planning Board in January 1998 to build a four-story, 200-room hotel and an 8,800-square-foot restaurant on Route 537.

 

But the plan fizzled. While Six Flags has a water treatment plant that serves the park and connects its sewer system to the Jackson Township Municipal Utilities Authority, it needed public water and sewer lines to reach Route 537. Given Jackson's sheer size of more than 100 square miles, the project could cost as much as $20 million, David Harpell, executive director of the Jackson MUA, said.

 

It explains the four-decade delay. "Somebody has to pay for it," said William Allmann, chairman of the Jackson MUA.

 

The MUA thinks it has bridged the gap. It signed agreements with Six Flags and Leigh Realty, which is building the Jackson 21 residential community, to help pay for the water project. It needs environmental approval from the state. But it could go out to a public bid this spring and be completed in 2019, Harpell said.

 

The MUA is continuing to negotiate with Six Flags about sewer service, Harpell said.

 

Growing demand

 

And there are hints that demand is picking up. More than five acres in Jackson adjacent to Six Flags— zoned commercial — is for sale, a sign on Route 537 says. The contact from Byron Real Estate Co. Inc. didn't return a call for comment.

 

"You have a job creator, you have a revenue enhancer not seen in this area in a long time," Mayor Reina said. "I’m excited. I’m also seeing a vision finally come to reality."

 

Still, one expert said the water and sewer service is only part of the equation. Developers need to be convinced that Six Flags can attract more than day-trippers. In that respect, Six Flags' location about an hour from both New York City and Philadelphia is both a blessing and a curse.

 

"It's within a commuting distance," said Peter Reinhart, director of the Kislak Real Estate Institute at Monmouth University in West Long Branch. "It's a long day, but it's doable."

 

For now, Tommy's Inn is simply operating in the shadows of Six Flags, and life isn't easy. The amusement park at times feels more like a competitor than a draw. It has expanded its menu, offering not only staples like funnel cake but also gluten-free meals. Like Atlantic City casinos, the park gives guests more incentive to stay at the property longer, spending their money there, nolt at businesses such as Tommy's.

 

Tommy's business once spiked 30 percent during the season. Now, it sees an increase of 12 percent to 15 percent, Savastano said.

 

"You need to be savvy and aggressive to make it," he said. "I’m here 17 years, and you walk in here and people say, 'Where is everybody?' I tell them, 'If I knew, I’d be there.' But we do OK."

 

"We do our parties, a great banquet room back there, a lot of parties, lunch and dinner, karaoke on Friday night," Savastano said. "So we do get a nice influx of people in the area. They all live here. But if you have Six Flags, that becomes just, for me, a bonus."

For the record, the reason people don't visit Tommy's is because it's f**king trash. If you want to eat the sh**tiest food you'll ever have in your life for the most exorbitant prices, give Tommy's Inn a whirl.

That article is the same old song and dance the comes along every few years. It's never going to happen. The township will never pay for it, and even if they do, it'll never get past the environmental impact issue. Look at how up-in-arms people in the area got over a damn solar panel field.

Even if all of the planets aligned and this project SOMEHOW actually got off the ground, it'll never have the commercial impact people will be looking for. There's just not enough of a population in the area to support it, and 537 doesn't have the same kind of traffic flow like other, already built-up areas, either. Having worked and managed that McDonald's outside of the park for ten years (2000-2010), I can tell you that the seasonality of the park, even with the recent inclusion of Holiday in the Park, will keep hotels and other businesses away.

To illustrate this: an average McDonald's will do $5-7K in sales on a decent day, $8-10K if it's in a prime commercial location. During the park season, our store used to do $20K easily on a slow day, nearing $25K on busier days (these are the days before the Dining Pass, too; I don't work there anymore, but I know from from people I keep in touch with that it has seriously impacted sales). However, if the park was closed, it was a ghost town - we'd be lucky to do $4K on a busy day.

As someone who lived and worked right in this specific area for nearly half of my life, I just don't see this ever happening.

There's just not enough of a population in the area to support it, and 537 doesn't have the same kind of traffic flow like other, already built-up areas, either.

Isn't that kinda the point of hotels though? Even if there isn't traffic along the highway, I doubt hotels near theme parks really rely on foot traffic vs reservations and being the closest hotel to the property can't be a bad thing.

^ I didn't mean to imply that a lack of foot traffic is what would prevent it from being successful, but more in the sense that the park is essentially the ONLY thing in the area from which a potential hotel would benefit. The nearest hotels and motels in places like Hamilton and Freehold service much more densely-populated and commercially-developed areas and are also close to nearby traffic hubs (Hamilton is a mile off of the NJ Turnpike, Freehold has Route 9 running right through it and isn't far from the Garden State Parkway). When Six Flags is closed, there is NOTHING to do in that immediate area for miles in each direction (trust me, I know, I grew up there). A hotel would get little to no business when the park is closed, which it is for three full months out of the year as well as during the most of the "in-school" portion of its operating schedule.

I'm sure during the heart of the season an independently-owned hotel on 537 would see some moderate success, but when factoring in the area's year-round potential, it wouldn't be economically feasible in the long run. Now if it were a seasonal, park-run resort similar to what Cedar Point offers, that's a completely different story.

I guess turning Hurricane Harbor into some sort of Great Wolf-type place is out of the question.

Question for all the regulars of the park...

What all rides have at the park have a Single Rider line??

Green Lantern, Joker, and Zumanjaro. But they're all worthless.

Nobody mentioning the new loose articles policy that went into effect this weekend? No items even in zippered pockets on Ka and Toro. See bottom of screenshot:

As I understand, security was asking every guest coming through, and if they saw you in the queue on your phone they would ask you to get out of line.

They are not wanding or putting people through metal detectors yet, but they have been enforcing pretty heavily... at least for now. Obviously you can't stop someone from lying and they aren't frisking anyone, but there you go.

Note: I have not been to the park this weekend, just passing along the news

^I'm not all that surprised to be honest. So many people lose their phones, sunglasses, and other items on El Toro. Last week, while waiting in line, I saw someone's phone fly out of their pocket and shatter on the track below. That just doesn't seem too safe being that it landed 10 feet from the queue line. Although keeping items in a zippered pocket would prevent that from happening, I just don't think the park wants to take those chances anymore.

Also while waiting in line for El Toro last week, I saw someone - excuse me - I saw some dumbass throw their hat off at the top of Kingda Ka. I hope they looked cool when they got kicked out of the park.

I really don't want to be punished for other people's stupidity. I understand that sometimes that's just how the world works but I feel like this is completely overkill. I'd much rather they make the punishment much more severe for people taking their phones out on rides (because let's be honest, that's what this is really about) and actually enforce the rules they put in place.

Every time they stop a ride for a cell phone, I see security meet them at the exit, talk to them and then let them off with a warning. If you're that concerned you should really try enforcing the rules you've already put in place before you put stupid policies in place that operate on the honor system and will only have an impact on people that were already following the rules and weren't the problem anyway. If you're enough of a dumbass that you'll whip your phone out on Kingda Ka then you're not concerned with the rules anyway and will have no issue lying to security.

^I'm not all that surprised to be honest. So many people lose their phones, sunglasses, and other items on El Toro. Last week, while waiting in line, I saw someone's phone fly out of their pocket and shatter on the track below. That just doesn't seem too safe being that it landed 10 feet from the queue line. Although keeping items in a zippered pocket would prevent that from happening, I just don't think the park wants to take those chances anymore.

 

Also while waiting in line for El Toro last week, I saw someone - excuse me - I saw some dumbass throw their hat off at the top of Kingda Ka. I hope they looked cool when they got kicked out of the park.

And yesterday at Six Flags America, I saw someone's wallet and keys fly out of their jacket pockets on Superman: Ride of Steel, and heard someone lost their glasses on

Mind Eraser.

Me personally, I have my wallet attached to a chain on my belt loop and my keys in my pocket deep (though I do take my stuff out of my pockets for Batwing and Mind

Eraser).

And someone tossing their hat off of KK . . . ?

I agree with coasterbill, start actually throwing people out and people might start getting the message more. Unless they are using wands or metal detectors I'll just be responding with no when they ask if I have anything in my pockets since I put my stuff in zippered pockets and have never had an issue. I still can't imagine what this would be like on a bring a friend free day when the lines are ridiculous. There won't be enough lockers for everyone to even use.

^Another good reason to get rid of BAFF days.

But coasterbill pretty much summed it up for me also.

I really don't want to be punished for other people's stupidity. I understand that sometimes that's just how the world works but I feel like this is completely overkill. I'd much rather they make the punishment much more severe for people taking their phones out on rides (because let's be honest, that's what this is really about) and actually enforce the rules they put in place.

 

Every time they stop a ride for a cell phone, I see security meet them at the exit, talk to them and then let them off with a warning. If you're that concerned you should really try enforcing the rules you've already put in place before you put stupid policies in place that operate on the honor system and will only have an impact on people that were already following the rules and weren't the problem anyway. If you're enough of a dumbass that you'll whip your phone out on Kingda Ka then you're not concerned with the rules anyway and will have no issue lying to security.

I'm actually going to SF:GAdv this year, and I was going to elaborate on how I'll be handling myself, but I think I'll just leave it at what Bill said for now!

That rule doesn't make any sense. I need my phone with me because sometimes I split up from my group and need to keep them updated at how long I'm going to be, where I'm at in line and more. I also can't imagine the rule lasting very long with all the complaints they'll be getting from the GP once the summer season starts to roll around.

I really don't want to be punished for other people's stupidity. I understand that sometimes that's just how the world works but I feel like this is completely overkill. I'd much rather they make the punishment much more severe for people taking their phones out on rides (because let's be honest, that's what this is really about) and actually enforce the rules they put in place.

 

Every time they stop a ride for a cell phone, I see security meet them at the exit, talk to them and then let them off with a warning. If you're that concerned you should really try enforcing the rules you've already put in place before you put stupid policies in place that operate on the honor system and will only have an impact on people that were already following the rules and weren't the problem anyway. If you're enough of a dumbass that you'll whip your phone out on Kingda Ka then you're not concerned with the rules anyway and will have no issue lying to security.

Honestly, it's cause when someone is "kicked out" of a park, odds are they won't be coming back for a long, long time. They will view Six Flags in a very negative light and will share that opinion with others. Six Flags doesn't want to take the PR hit...

It's no different then going into a retail store and basically being able to get away with murder if you threaten to call the "Corporate Office" and lodge a complaint. Same line of thought.

Good. If this new policy is really because you're concerned about safety and not because you just want to sell more lockers then you shouldn't want people who break the rules coming back to the park.

I really don't want to be punished for other people's stupidity. I understand that sometimes that's just how the world works but I feel like this is completely overkill. I'd much rather they make the punishment much more severe for people taking their phones out on rides (because let's be honest, that's what this is really about) and actually enforce the rules they put in place.

 

Every time they stop a ride for a cell phone, I see security meet them at the exit, talk to them and then let them off with a warning. If you're that concerned you should really try enforcing the rules you've already put in place before you put stupid policies in place that operate on the honor system and will only have an impact on people that were already following the rules and weren't the problem anyway. If you're enough of a dumbass that you'll whip your phone out on Kingda Ka then you're not concerned with the rules anyway and will have no issue lying to security.

Honestly, it's cause when someone is "kicked out" of a park, odds are they won't be coming back for a long, long time. They will view Six Flags in a very negative light and will share that opinion with others. Six Flags doesn't want to take the PR hit...

 

It's no different then going into a retail store and basically being able to get away with murder if you threaten to call the "Corporate Office" and lodge a complaint. Same line of thought.

I think kicking out people for endangering others makes them look good in the PR department. At least it does to me.

Honestly, it's cause when someone is "kicked out" of a park, odds are they won't be coming back for a long, long time. They will view Six Flags in a very negative light and will share that opinion with others. Six Flags doesn't want to take the PR hit...

 

It's no different then going into a retail store and basically being able to get away with murder if you threaten to call the "Corporate Office" and lodge a complaint. Same line of thought.

I can see this as PR hit too. No one, especially if they're alone, is going to want to stand in line without their phone, and we all know of these families with attitudes that will have no issue raising hell because they're told to get out of line because they have their phone in line with them. I can see it becoming a big issue.

Nobody mentioning the new loose articles policy that went into effect this weekend? No items even in zippered pockets on Ka and Toro. See bottom of screenshot:

 

 

As I understand, security was asking every guest coming through, and if they saw you in the queue on your phone they would ask you to get out of line.

 

They are not wanding or putting people through metal detectors yet, but they have been enforcing pretty heavily... at least for now. Obviously you can't stop someone from lying and they aren't frisking anyone, but there you go.

 

Note: I have not been to the park this weekend, just passing along the news

The Ka and Toro special note makes little sense as those two don't even go upside down while most of the other rides mentioned in that part do go upside down. I wonder if SF will put more of those lockers in before high season.

You do know that stuff can fly out of your pocket even when you're not upside down, don't you?

Don't you?

Seriously, that's just basic physics.

Yes, the rule makes no sense, but not at all in any way for the reason you've said. It's that stuff doesn't fly out of a properly secured pocket, no matter your physical orientation.

Unless they are using wands or metal detectors I'll just be responding with no when they ask if I have anything in my pockets since I put my stuff in zippered pockets and have never had an issue

Likewise. I feel as the season wears on, and people inevitably complain the park will stop enforcing this. And to echo what other people say, they don't have nearly enough lockers to make it work especially in the summer.

I hate when Universal does this policy, but at least they provide lockers for free and have plenty of them.

How are they planning on enforcing this? Are they posting guards at the rides?

I'm honestly surprised people are getting so worked up over this. This isn't the first time they've had a sudden blanket all-loose-article ban on Toro. As with past attempts at enforcing this, it will likely only last a couple weeks. They can ask me all they want if I have loose articles in my pockets, I'll tell them I don't. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Unless they are frisking/wanding/making people walk through metal detectors, what is the big deal? Not to mention this will be impossible to enforce on packed summer days as there are simply not enough l.ockers for everyone.

I really don't want to be punished for other people's stupidity. I understand that sometimes that's just how the world works but I feel like this is completely overkill. I'd much rather they make the punishment much more severe for people taking their phones out on rides (because let's be honest, that's what this is really about) and actually enforce the rules they put in place.

 

Every time they stop a ride for a cell phone, I see security meet them at the exit, talk to them and then let them off with a warning. If you're that concerned you should really try enforcing the rules you've already put in place before you put stupid policies in place that operate on the honor system and will only have an impact on people that were already following the rules and weren't the problem anyway. If you're enough of a dumbass that you'll whip your phone out on Kingda Ka then you're not concerned with the rules anyway and will have no issue lying to security.

100% this. The park doesn't need to worry about taking a PR hit - need I remind you people we have the tallest coaster and the best woodie, and we're the cheapest season pass on the east coast? We'll get the crowds regardless. I think a bigger PR hit is becoming known as a park where people constantly get hurt by flying projectiles.

I think the park should really reconfigure/reconsider its entire rules/regulations for filming on rides. For one, I think people with gopro's strapped to their bodies SHOULD be allowed to ride (I don't own a gopro, for the record) but there should be a system in place for people that want to do this - check in @ the park, get a special pass, etc.

And then on top of this the park really needs to crack the f*ck down on people with any loose articles on rides. Put those glass cases with peoples broken phones everywhere, make it part of every ride schpeil, make people aware this is astrict rule and serious consequences will result, and kick people the hell out when they get caught doing it.

Enforce it and people will know the rules and they'll follow them. But they need to be enforced.

The Ka and Toro special note makes little sense as those two don't even go upside down while most of the other rides mentioned in that part do go upside down.

You can't be serious.

I'm honestly surprised people are getting so worked up over this. This isn't the first time they've had a sudden blanket all-loose-article ban on Toro. As with past attempts at enforcing this, it will likely only last a couple weeks. They can ask me all they want if I have loose articles in my pockets, I'll tell them I don't. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Unless they are frisking/wanding/making people walk through metal detectors, what is the big deal? Not to mention this will be impossible to enforce on packed summer days as there are simply not enough l.ockers for everyone.

 

I really don't want to be punished for other people's stupidity. I understand that sometimes that's just how the world works but I feel like this is completely overkill. I'd much rather they make the punishment much more severe for people taking their phones out on rides (because let's be honest, that's what this is really about) and actually enforce the rules they put in place.

 

Every time they stop a ride for a cell phone, I see security meet them at the exit, talk to them and then let them off with a warning. If you're that concerned you should really try enforcing the rules you've already put in place before you put stupid policies in place that operate on the honor system and will only have an impact on people that were already following the rules and weren't the problem anyway. If you're enough of a dumbass that you'll whip your phone out on Kingda Ka then you're not concerned with the rules anyway and will have no issue lying to security.

100% this. The park doesn't need to worry about taking a PR hit - need I remind you people we have the tallest coaster and the best woodie, and we're the cheapest season pass on the east coast? We'll get the crowds regardless. I think a bigger PR hit is becoming known as a park where people constantly get hurt by flying projectiles.

 

I think the park should really reconfigure/reconsider its entire rules/regulations for filming on rides. For one, I think people with gopro's strapped to their bodies SHOULD be allowed to ride (I don't own a gopro, for the record) but there should be a system in place for people that want to do this - check in @ the park, get a special pass, etc.

 

And then on top of this the park really needs to crack the f*ck down on people with any loose articles on rides. Put those glass cases with peoples broken phones everywhere, make it part of every ride schpeil, make people aware this is astrict rule and serious consequences will result, and kick people the hell out when they get caught doing it.

 

Enforce it and people will know the rules and they'll follow them. But they need to be enforced.

 

The Ka and Toro special note makes little sense as those two don't even go upside down while most of the other rides mentioned in that part do go upside down.

You can't be serious.

Six Flags should really put bins in the stations, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. It'll definitely reduce the amount of loose articles brought on the rides.

Great trip report BTW!