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Walt Disney World Epcot Discussion Thread

p. 118 - EPCOT Destination D23 news roundup!

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I think sheer attendance numbers may have something to do with it. There are many more people each year at disney parks than at Six Flags or Paramount or Cedar Fair parks. It's Disney! The themepark juggernaut! More people = more chances for accidents. The 4-year old IMO is just an unfortunate accident. We had a lady die after riding top gun at PKI. She had a heart attack. Very very sad, her daughter rode with her, but it's an accident. Unfortunate, yes, but you can't prevent every death in the world. To sum up, sh$t happens.

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Okay, here's my two cents. First of all, everyone is always so quick to jump on the "pre-existing condition" bandwagon, and try to pass it off as the rider's or guardian's fault for dying because of it. I believe someone else in here stated that these conditions are not always known...which is very true. Did someone not die on SFMM's Goliath once from a brain anuerism (sp?)or something of the like? I can't remember the last time I woke up and said, gee, maybe I should get my brain scanned today before I head out to the park.....just in case something may trigger sudden death, you know?

 

I hate to sound like that idiot senator who tried to propose lowering g-forces, but I'm starting to feel that this is Disney's fault. I agree with Elissa that people fall into a "safe" feeling on what is essentially a vacation time. Of course the general public doesn't read signs, but should they need to be warned, or worse, even scared about potential death because they haven't had an extensive physical lately? I remember being a bit apprehensive while listening to Gary last year, and I was in good health.

 

Disney knew full well what they were building. It took, what, half a decade or more to build this thing? Not to mention the brilliant minds of NASA along with many former astronauts. It's hard to believe that not one person said, "wait, don't you think we might be subjecting the general public to forces only professionals should feel?"

 

Sure, on the surface it's a spinning ride, right? Well, sort of. Yes, most carnival type flat rides are based on the element of centrifugal force (Gravitron, for instance)....but M:S is not your normal Gravitron. In my completely unscientific opinion, the problem with this ride is that it tricks the mind into thinking the body is doing something it's not. When you're riding, your mind is tricked into feeling a forward motion, when in reality you're body is undoubtedly spinning. Does that make any sense?

 

I'm no expert on the inner workings of this machine, but I do remember reading somewhere about how this essential centrifuge was altered to achieve these forward motion feelings. I mean, let's be realistic here. On certain centrifugal type carnival rides, yes you spin like crazy, but your body is able adapt to the direction in which you're heading. And if M:S was as simple as this premise, then why did it cost $100 million (insert Dr. Evil impression), and why are people dying? Surely you never had this many people dying on the Gravitron at your local fair. And if I'm wrong, I apologize, but remember who we're dealing with here....Disney...they can't afford continuing bad publicity like this.

 

The simple fact is that Disney bowed to the critics who said they couldn't build more intense rides, and now they're paying for it. I don't care whether Disney welcomes 1 or 100,000,000 guests a year, 1 death on a ride that was too intense to begin with is one death too many. And when you can't blame rider error for an idiot standing up on a ride, or undoing a restraint, then it becomes solely the park's responsiblity for building it in the first place, IMHO. Disney knew they were pushing the limits. I shudder to think what this thing was like when it had it's cast member preview. My brother told me half the riders puked at one point. And it's been no secret that it's been toned down.

 

All in all, this is very sad, and my prayers go out to the family affected. I just really feel that this ride never needed to be there in the first place. A death at Disney should never happen.....especially twice in such a short time.

 

So I ask, what's next? A new Russian pavillion with Russian Roulette:The Ride?

 

 

Sorry for the long-winded rant.

 

Mission: Space may be an intense ride by Disney standards, but it's not all that intense in general. 2g's... that's all.

 

Also, your body's perception of motion has very little to do with its actual physical effect. Thinking you're going forward when you're really going in circles makes no difference, especially at only 2g's.

 

The forces involved with the ride are not those that real astronauts feel. Upon launch, an astronaut feels ~8g's. This ride delivers two.

 

Compare it with other, more intense rides. Rollercoasters consistantly pull anywhere from 3-6g's.

 

Disney knew exactly what they were building: a centrifuge ride. So long as people follow the warnings, there should have (and would have) been no major injuries.

 

It's a dreadfull tragedy that these people have died. It truly is. But you cannot pin this on Disney. They clearly warn that M:S is intense, that people with heart problems should not ride, etc.

 

In the case of the 4-year-old, can you really blame Disney if noone knew of the kid's condition? As for the German lady... you'd be supprised how many Europeans know English. Even if she didn't, what is Disney supposed to do? Post signs in every concievable language?

 

It is a tragedy. But it is not Disney's fault. You cannot blame a corporation for the actions of those whom they have little knowledge of or contol over.

 

-ACE

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So, why do sooo many people die at disneyland and disneyworld each year? They dont have that many intense rides, is it maintnence?( but this one seems to be caused by health)

 

Uhhhh....not that many people have died at Disney parks in general. Disneyland has had like, what, 10 deaths over it's 50 years, and all but two of those were due to guests misbehaving. I don't even know about deaths at WDW besides some guy jumping out of Splash, the person getting dragged by the parade float, and these two M:S incidents.

 

Saying there are "soooo many people" dying at the parks each year is, at best, a gross misjudgment.

 

Statistically though, there is a greater risk of accidents at Disney versus Six Flags Wherever simply because Disney attracts far more guests. Additionally, the media is going to play up any sort of incident that happens on a Disney property, fatal or not.

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Haha, it is funny reading all this here! I knew everything about it right after it happened! It is cool to hear everything offstage! There are so many things they tell us, but we can not go out and tell that anyone! I am sorry! But it is nice working here!

 

--Sören

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^Were they giving you all the details so you could train all the other CM's to pretend it never happened? German's have so much experience with that already...

 

I kid. I kid.

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If he didn't know the facts, he shouldn't have said anything

 

If people did that, the internet would pretty much have to close.

 

I know that people like to look for a reason or something/someone to blame whenever something happens, but some times things are just an accident or beyond anyone's control. If someone is walking around with a health problem that they're unaware of, how is it anyone's fault? Some problems, especially brain related, are hard to detect. I have a hard time with people blaming the ride or park for these incidents.

 

And there is no ride out there that has as many warnings as M:S. I still think they go overboard, and actually freak some people out more than normal.

 

dt

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Okay, here's my two cents. First of all, everyone is always so quick to jump on the "pre-existing condition" bandwagon, and try to pass it off as the rider's or guardian's fault for dying because of it. I believe someone else in here stated that these conditions are not always known...which is very true. Did someone not die on SFMM's Goliath once from a brain anuerism (sp?)or something of the like? I can't remember the last time I woke up and said, gee, maybe I should get my brain scanned today before I head out to the park.....just in case something may trigger sudden death, you know?

 

I hate to sound like that idiot senator who tried to propose lowering g-forces, but I'm starting to feel that this is Disney's fault. I agree with Elissa that people fall into a "safe" feeling on what is essentially a vacation time. Of course the general public doesn't read signs, but should they need to be warned, or worse, even scared about potential death because they haven't had an extensive physical lately? I remember being a bit apprehensive while listening to Gary last year, and I was in good health.

 

Disney knew full well what they were building. It took, what, half a decade or more to build this thing? Not to mention the brilliant minds of NASA along with many former astronauts. It's hard to believe that not one person said, "wait, don't you think we might be subjecting the general public to forces only professionals should feel?"

 

Sure, on the surface it's a spinning ride, right? Well, sort of. Yes, most carnival type flat rides are based on the element of centrifugal force (Gravitron, for instance)....but M:S is not your normal Gravitron. In my completely unscientific opinion, the problem with this ride is that it tricks the mind into thinking the body is doing something it's not. When you're riding, your mind is tricked into feeling a forward motion, when in reality you're body is undoubtedly spinning. Does that make any sense?

 

I'm no expert on the inner workings of this machine, but I do remember reading somewhere about how this essential centrifuge was altered to achieve these forward motion feelings. I mean, let's be realistic here. On certain centrifugal type carnival rides, yes you spin like crazy, but your body is able adapt to the direction in which you're heading. And if M:S was as simple as this premise, then why did it cost $100 million (insert Dr. Evil impression), and why are people dying? Surely you never had this many people dying on the Gravitron at your local fair. And if I'm wrong, I apologize, but remember who we're dealing with here....Disney...they can't afford continuing bad publicity like this.

 

The simple fact is that Disney bowed to the critics who said they couldn't build more intense rides, and now they're paying for it. I don't care whether Disney welcomes 1 or 100,000,000 guests a year, 1 death on a ride that was too intense to begin with is one death too many. And when you can't blame rider error for an idiot standing up on a ride, or undoing a restraint, then it becomes solely the park's responsiblity for building it in the first place, IMHO. Disney knew they were pushing the limits. I shudder to think what this thing was like when it had it's cast member preview. My brother told me half the riders puked at one point. And it's been no secret that it's been toned down.

 

All in all, this is very sad, and my prayers go out to the family affected. I just really feel that this ride never needed to be there in the first place. A death at Disney should never happen.....especially twice in such a short time.

 

So I ask, what's next? A new Russian pavillion with Russian Roulette:The Ride?

 

 

Sorry for the long-winded rant.

 

Mission: Space may be an intense ride by Disney standards, but it's not all that intense in general. 2g's... that's all.

 

Also, your body's perception of motion has very little to do with its actual physical effect. Thinking you're going forward when you're really going in circles makes no difference, especially at only 2g's.

 

The forces involved with the ride are not those that real astronauts feel. Upon launch, an astronaut feels ~8g's. This ride delivers two.

 

Compare it with other, more intense rides. Rollercoasters consistantly pull anywhere from 3-6g's.

 

Disney knew exactly what they were building: a centrifuge ride. So long as people follow the warnings, there should have (and would have) been no major injuries.

 

It's a dreadfull tragedy that these people have died. It truly is. But you cannot pin this on Disney. They clearly warn that M:S is intense, that people with heart problems should not ride, etc.

 

In the case of the 4-year-old, can you really blame Disney if noone knew of the kid's condition? As for the German lady... you'd be supprised how many Europeans know English. Even if she didn't, what is Disney supposed to do? Post signs in every concievable language?

 

It is a tragedy. But it is not Disney's fault. You cannot blame a corporation for the actions of those whom they have little knowledge of or contol over.

 

-ACE

 

Yeah, I understand that scientifically I could be way off base, it was only one theory. Either way, there has to be a corrolation somewhere. As someone stated, the number of incidents is relatively low for the number of people who walk through the gate in a year, but this ride IS unlike any other in the world, and again, one death not based on rider error is one death too many....especially in the "Happiest Place on Earth" (call off the hounds...I know that's technically on the DL sign )

 

Soren, how much would it cost to get you to talk? Just kidding At least the mouse can't stay silent about major accidents, injuries, or death anymore.

 

Scott "are you sure TOGO didn't make this ride?" B.

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Oooooh Soren.... Secret Castmember Gossip! lol - I like!!

 

Im unsure about all of this. IMO, I dont think that it is anyones fault at all. Its just a tragic accident.

 

Disney certainly warn you about the ride. I mean, Gary warned me so much, I freaked out and didnt go on the ride. I was so nervous and worried that I was gonna be feeling ill for the rest of the day, that I freaked and walked. I don't do that very often.

 

I always get nervous about rides, but never to the extent that I don't wanna ride anymore. Personally, I don't think I'll ever go on Mission Space, not because people have died or anything but just because I didn't have a good feeling about it.

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^ The boy met the height requirements. The family asked Disney to raise the limit to 51" after the death, to potentially prevent young kids from riding. Disney denied the request.

 

The media loves dogging on Disney, this is a known fact. Anything to make a headline right?

 

The stuff I read on the incident said he hadn't met the height requirement, so if that's not true, my bad.

 

I agree though, the media loves taking a shot at Disney over anything, even a minor incident like that guy who got stuck between the boat and the dock on the riverboat ride a while back.

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Ok... first of all, does everyone have to keep posting other's long posts into their own long posts??? Just wondering?

 

Secondly, I think this comment speaks volumes:

I think sheer attendance numbers may have something to do with it. There are many more people each year at disney parks than at Six Flags or Paramount or Cedar Fair parks.

 

One thing that needs to be brought up that hasn't is this: Disney, hands down, attracts a larger, more varied crowd of people than any of the more traditional US amusement parks. Whole families save for years to make a pilgrimage there, and they pay a premium price to experience Disney. I am sure there are lots of people who get there and throw caution to the wind so that they can "get their money's worth" etc, knowing it's not likely they'll be back in a week or a month or whatever.

 

For folks like Robb and Elissa, or Deb Wills at WDWIG, or even my good friends here in Cincy who have a share in the DVC, you go down several times a year and you take your time, see the newest things, don't push yourself, etc. But for the rest of this, there is a sense of urgency that you have to get their and push yourself to see it all and do it all.

 

Clearly there are people who are out there who are walking time bombs. I could be one. Any of you could, too. The right set of circumstances can throw an aneurysm, trigger a heart attack, etc. You have got people who have driven/flown long distances, been stressed and excited, are exhausted from walking and heat....... And people just don't stop to think.

 

If Disney is to blame for anything (and I say this tongue in cheek because I am as big a Disney-lover as there is and I buy into ALL the hype!!) it's the fact that every attraction they open in every park around the world is hyped to point of ridiculous that everyone, everywhere needs to get to the park RIGHT NOW and ride it!! I don't see Cedar Point advertising for grandparents to come bring the grandkiddies and ride TTD.

 

Just my two (or maybe three) cents worth.....

Shari

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Ok... first of all, does everyone have to keep posting other's long posts into their own long posts??? Just wondering?

I'm guessing that was meant to be directed this way? It was a mistake, much like Disney gambling on a worthless ride.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Scott "wow, some people" B.

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Wow, that must totally suck. Especially with the death of the 4 year old last summer.

 

As sad as this is, however, I cannot help but blame it on the stupid choices of the riders themselves. The news reports I have read said that it was likely that the woman was suffering from a condition...in which case she shouldn't have been riding in the first place!

 

The reason the little boy last summer passed out on the ride was because the G-forces were too much for a kid of his age to handle! It is the same with people who are in poor mental/phsyical health. Pay attention to Disney's warnings - they don't repeat them over and over to show off their skills with computers and collaboration with Gary Senise, they repeat them to warn away people who might be seriously affected by the ride! In fact, I bet right now Disney is saying..."Why oh WHY can't people be more sensible?!"

 

I actually like Mission Space a lot. Personally, I loved the Gs during liftoff, and the button simulation made it all the more exciting. I didn't get sick at all. But then again, I followed the instructions. It's too bad that the ride is getting charged for causing deaths of people who shouldn't have ridden in the first place...

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The reason the little boy last summer passed out on the ride was because the G-forces were too much for a kid of his age to handle!

 

This is incorrect. He had an undiagnosed heart condition. It had nothing to do with his age.

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Ok, we can put the blame on a pre-existing condition.

 

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/orl-bk-tourist041406,0,7767964.story?coll=orl-home-headlines

 

A German tourist who collapsed this week after riding the Mission: Space thrill ride at Walt Disney died from bleeding of the brain brought on high blood pressure, according to the Orange-Osceola Medical Examiner's Office.

 

The autopsy of Hiltrud Blümel showed of "severe, long standing high blood pressure," Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Jan Garavaglia said in a statement released Friday afternoon. There were no signs of trauma, she said.

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A few people thought she has high blood pressure, looks like they were correct. Its sad that she had to die, but you can't blame the ride or the park, as the first warning on the sign is "Do not ride if you have HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE"! Just because she's German doesn't excuse her. I can think of pretty much every thrill ride in the known world that also states not riding if you have high blood pressure. Disney certainly better not have to put the warnings in EVERY possible language just to cover their butts, it annoys me already that they have to say everything in Spanish as well as English.

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This is quite a sad event, and my heart goes out to the family of this poor woman.

 

It would be nice if Disney and other parks defined what they mean by "high" blood pressure, especially in regards to a ride with fairly strong G forces (or continuous exposure to such forces). I've been taking blood-pressure medication for a few years now. When I was truly morbidly obese after college in 1984, 280 as opposed to the slightly under 225 I am now, my BP was 200/100--well on my way to a stroke. Yesterday, it was 130/88--a little high, but hardly outrageous. (Been working on losing more weight, too.)

 

So, is there as threshold BP for high-G-force rides? This would be essential information, I think.

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O.K. I know this has been said about 50 times before, but yes. People do not think of Disney as Thrill rides. Take my example for example.

 

Right after my family was at the Magic Kingdom, where I had ridden my first coaster (The Barnstormer), we headed to Tower of Terror, where we had no idea that it was a drop ride. We plunge on the ride, and scared the living out of me!

 

It was the same for the Rock'n Roller Coaster. I saw the launch when we headed in the station, we saw the train head into the tunnel. I got a little shocked about it, but then forgot about it when we started running the circuit. And the launch scared me! Same with the whole ride. Although I only remember feeling one section of negative G on the ride, and that was that little bunny hop at the end. I was so worried that the ride would produce negative G, and the bunny hop at the end creeped me out.

 

What I'm trying to tell, is the point of view of the average person. So if I went on Mission Space (even with all those warning signs), I probably still would have gone on it (I would have gone on it, but it wasn't built yet), ignoring the signs, and still not even knowing what the ride was.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Busy reading today's news about the big gangsta rap shooting on I-75 here in Cincy, when this caught my eye:

 

http://www.channelcincinnati.com/travelgetaways/9151864/detail.html

 

 

Sorry to say this sounds like what some feared would happen, but I can't gauge by the article... is this going to be the whole ride or will their be a "non-spinning" section? Is this even possible???

 

 

Shari

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