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Six Flags [FUN] Corporate Discussion Thread

p. 91: Six Flags and Cedar Fair to enter "merger of equals" agreement, company will still be called "Six Flags"

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From Screamscape:

 

Six Flags - (10/29/12) An interesting rumor from the Six Flags campground make it to my ears this weekend. Sounds like there may be some kind of contract dispute between Six Flags and SmarteCart, the 3rd party vendor who supplied Six Flags with all those walls of extra fluffy, fluffy bunnies filled with medicine and goo at the major attractions several years ago. I believe the basis for the first deal was some kind of profit revenue sharing plan between the two if SmarteCart would install the fluffy, fluffy bunnies filled with medicine and goo into the park on their own dime. Rumor has it SmarteCart wants more money and Six Flags is telling them to go pound sand.

The management at Six Flags now is entirely different from the the group who negotiated the original deal, and could be that they are ready to part ways with SmarteCart, which could mean that the mandatory fluffy, fluffy bunny filled with medicine and goo system could be on the way out before the parks reopen in 2013. Stay tuned!

 

I like the sound of that!

 

They found a new company who offered Six Flags a deal they couldn't refuse.

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  • 8 months later...

While you can still purchase season passes valid for a calendar year, Six Flags is now offering memberships for an ongoing monthly fee. After 12 months you can cancel at any time or continue the membership. It looks like all the Six Flags parks are offering the same idea so I posted it in the general Six Flags thread.

 

https://content.sixflags.com/overgeorgia/tickets/memberships/

 

I posted the link to SFOG since that is closest to me but all of park pages that I checked are offering the same thing, although the pricing per month varies per park. The price also varies at most parks based on the number of memberships that you buy.

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I think SF is the only company that accepts Discover!!

 

You can use Discover at the Tokyo Disney parks, too.

 

From Screamscape:

 

Six Flags - (10/29/12) An interesting rumor from the Six Flags campground make it to my ears this weekend. Sounds like there may be some kind of contract dispute between Six Flags and SmarteCart, the 3rd party vendor who supplied Six Flags with all those walls of extra fluffy, fluffy bunnies filled with medicine and goo at the major attractions several years ago. I believe the basis for the first deal was some kind of profit revenue sharing plan between the two if SmarteCart would install the fluffy, fluffy bunnies filled with medicine and goo into the park on their own dime. Rumor has it SmarteCart wants more money and Six Flags is telling them to go pound sand.

The management at Six Flags now is entirely different from the the group who negotiated the original deal, and could be that they are ready to part ways with SmarteCart, which could mean that the mandatory fluffy, fluffy bunny filled with medicine and goo system could be on the way out before the parks reopen in 2013. Stay tuned!

 

I like the sound of that!

 

They found a new company who offered Six Flags a deal they couldn't refuse.

 

I think Joey speaks the truth here.

Edited by cfc
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  • 2 months later...

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20131023-706301.html

 

Six Flags Entertainment Corp.'s (SIX) third-quarter revenue increased on growth in admissions, food and merchandise sales.

 

Still, the company said its quarterly attendance, revenue and profit were "somewhat suppressed" by lower attendance at its Six Flags Over Texas park, after a woman died in July after falling from a 14-story roller coaster there. Six Flags also said its booked a $3 million accrual for estimated litigation costs relating to the incident.

 

Six Flags, which exited bankruptcy in May 2010, was hurt by a heavy debt load and declining attendance during the recession. Its revenue had grown over the past few years, as attendance and ticket sales had generally improved.

 

Six Flags reported a profit of $120.4 million, or $1.22 a share, down from $253 million, or $2.23 a share, a year earlier. The year-ago period included a gain on an asset sale of about $67 million.

 

Revenue rose 4% to $504.5 million.

 

Analysts polled by Thomson Reuters forecast a profit of $1.72 a share on revenue of $511 million.

 

Theme park admissions revenue was up 4% at $282.1 million, and theme park food, merchandise and other revenue grew 3.7% to $203.8 million.

 

Shares closed Tuesday at $35.29 and were down 1% premarket. As of the close, the stock was up 15% so far this year.

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  • 8 months later...

What does everyone think of this?

 

http://money.cnn.com/2014/07/21/investing/six-flags-attendance-drop/index.html

 

Summer bummer: Six Flags attendance tanks

The theme park's shares plunged as much as 9% after the company disclosed an attendance drop.

 

Only 8.2 million people went to one of Six Flags (SIX)' 18 parks in April, May or June. That was an 8% drop from the prior year.

 

The company blamed the shrinking crowds on "lingering effects of the long, harsh winter" that extended school calendars and shortened many spring breaks.

 

But Wall Street isn't buying that argument, sending the stock on a Kingda Ka-sized sell-off.

 

"The path to recovery hit a little bit of a snag here. The growth trajectory has stumbled over the last couple of quarters," said James Hardiman, a senior research analyst at Longbow Research who covers Six Flags.

 

The slumping Six Flag attendance figures surprised Hardiman, who had been banking on a 6% jump thanks in part to the later Easter holiday.

 

The weather comments are also a head scratcher considering rival theme park operator Cedar Fair (FUN) says it has been seeing pent-up demand from thrill seekers who were stuck indoors all winter.

 

"We are seeing first-hand the excitement our guests are experiencing as they leave this winter's snowy, cold weather behind," Cedar Fair CEO Matt Ouimet said in the company's earnings release in May.

 

Cedar Fair recently reiterated a solid outlook for 2014 revenue, although the company did acknowledge some decrease in attendance.

 

While Six Flags posted stronger-than-expected earnings, its revenue of $377 million trailed projections from Wall Street for $396 million.

 

The theme park also said total guest spending per visitor jumped 11% in the second quarter to $44 a person as visitors spent more on tickets and goodies while roaming the parks. That's perhaps another indicator of the economic recovery.

 

Investors may be wondering if the turnaround ride is over. Shares of Six Flags closed at $39.31, down 4.1% on the day. Fellow theme park SeaWorld Entertainment (SEAS) shed nearly 2% on Monday.

 

Slammed by the Great Recession and heavy debt, Six Flags filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in 2009. The theme park raced out of bankruptcy court, with its stock surging around 50% in 2011 and then again in 2012.

 

But recently the ride for investors has more closely resembled the Enchanted Teacups than the record-setting Zumanjaro. Six Flags trailed the broader markets by rising only 20% in 2013 and less than 5% this year.

 

"These guys had done a great job over the past few years as the company emerged from bankruptcy. But I think a lot of the low-hanging fruit has been picked," said Hardiman, who has a "hold" rating on the stock

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It will be interesting to see if that trend continues the rest of the season. It is true a lot of systems throughout the country did have to modify the calendars after the winter, but you also had late openings for many of their major new attractions this season (SFGAdv, SFGam, SFA, and SFOG all opened their new attraction after June 1).

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Well, maybe this will open some eyes in the corporation. They try to penny pinch every year, and at the same time make the guests angry. Maybe those guests are just saving money and going elsewhere like Cedar Fair or Herschend parks.

 

I don't believe that this whole conspiracy theory about weather and schools and blah blah blah is true. Let's look at how the company has skimped on people in the past.

 

- SkyScreamers are being put in multiple parks

 

- Used Boomerang to SF St. Louis

 

- Poor scheduling

 

- Lack of Variety at SFMM

 

- Parking and ticket costs rising

 

- Unfriendly staff and poor ops

 

- Overusage of names and company ads in park

 

Theres so many more that I can go on about. It's not a bad thing that they recycle ideas, but not every park needs a SkyScreamer. Unique attractions such as SFGAm's Goliath and Full Throttle will keep people coming back.

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But what about all the Windseekers at Cedar Fair parks?

 

Relocating a used Invertigo to Dorney Park?

 

Adding Zamperla Disko coasters to multiple parks?

 

85% of their guests drive less than 150 miles to the SF park they are visiting. Adding multiple similar attractions like Sky Screamers are not hurting the company.

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I don't understand what Six Flags is going for.

 

-Worst customer service in the business.

-Highest Parking Fees by far.

-Higher than average food prices. Miserable food quality across the board.

-Ignoring families and family attractions for the last two decades.

-At least half of the parks have horrible ride operations.

-Abysmal Locker Policies.

-Penny squeezing gimmicks that other parks don't necessarily use, like tube rentals.

-Cheap advertising gimmicks everywhere. Like, setting a global standard for as bad and cheap as advertising gimmicks can possibly get.

 

Do they expect good things to happen with all of those things in tandem?

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Well, maybe this will open some eyes in the corporation. They try to penny pinch every year, and at the same time make the guests angry. Maybe those guests are just saving money and going elsewhere like Cedar Fair or Herschend parks.

 

I don't believe that this whole conspiracy theory about weather and schools and blah blah blah is true. Let's look at how the company has skimped on people in the past.

 

- SkyScreamers are being put in multiple parks

 

- Used Boomerang to SF St. Louis

 

- Poor scheduling

 

- Lack of Variety at SFMM

 

- Parking and ticket costs rising

 

- Unfriendly staff and poor ops

 

- Overusage of names and company ads in park

 

Theres so many more that I can go on about. It's not a bad thing that they recycle ideas, but not every park needs a SkyScreamer. Unique attractions such as SFGAm's Goliath and YOLOcoaster will keep people coming back.

 

 

A.) Keep in mind that the majority of any parks attendance is repeated guests who've visited before. So I doubt that anyone living in Boston would second guess visiting NE due to GADV also having a SkyScreamer.

B.) It makes no difference if a ride is used. No one is going to care, or notice, unless your an enthusiasts. SFSL didn't have a boomerang the previous year, so...A new ride is a new ride, no matter how you slice it.

C.) Over-usage of a popular name, again, makes little difference. Superman & Goliath grab peoples attention, so of course parks are going to use them. Again, no ones going to care unless you've ridden multiple Superman/Goliath named attractions, A la - an enthusiast.

 

However, I do agree with Parking and ticket costs rising, Poor scheduling, and Unfriendly staff and poor ops. Six Flags has always had issues with these type of things. The need to either stop pushing for unrealistic results and just settle for what they can do, or not promote false guest experiences.

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Well, maybe this will open some eyes in the corporation. They try to penny pinch every year, and at the same time make the guests angry. Maybe those guests are just saving money and going elsewhere like Cedar Fair or Herschend parks.

 

I don't believe that this whole conspiracy theory about weather and schools and blah blah blah is true. Let's look at how the company has skimped on people in the past.

 

- SkyScreamers are being put in multiple parks

 

- Used Boomerang to SF St. Louis

 

- Poor scheduling

 

- Lack of Variety at SFMM

 

- Parking and ticket costs rising

 

- Unfriendly staff and poor ops

 

- Overusage of names and company ads in park

 

Theres so many more that I can go on about. It's not a bad thing that they recycle ideas, but not every park needs a SkyScreamer. Unique attractions such as SFGAm's Goliath and YOLOcoaster will keep people coming back.

 

No offense but did you seriously say "lack of variety at SFMM"?... if anything, they have more variety than any other Six Flags park IMO

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I don't understand what Six Flags is going for.

 

-Worst customer service in the business.

-Highest Parking Fees by far.

-Higher than average food prices. Miserable food quality across the board.

-Ignoring families and family attractions for the last two decades.

-At least half of the parks have horrible ride operations.

-Abysmal fluffy, fluffy bunny filled with medicine and goo Policies.

-Penny squeezing gimmicks that other parks don't necessarily use, like tube rentals.

-Cheap advertising gimmicks everywhere. Like, setting a global standard for as bad and cheap as advertising gimmicks can possibly get.

 

Do they expect good things to happen with all of those things in tandem?

 

Look at the employees Six Flags hires, and then look at basically any other quality theme park and tell me if you can't see why customer service, operations, etc. suffer at Six Flags parks. The parks with the best operations don't hire high school kids (who really don't want to be there but their mama made them get a job) to run the entire park--and then pay them jack diddly. But Six Flags is desperate for cheap labor; they think that if they spend more money on quality employees that it will cost them (which it will upfront, but it will pay dividends in the long-run as customer service and operations improve accordingly).

 

I worked for a Six Flags-owned water park for 2 summers in HS, and it was something I looked forward to and actually cared about. Many of my coworkers hated having to show up to work. The supervisor of my restaurant was younger than I was, often talked about drinking and partying, and showed up hung over a few times. His best friend worked in our restaurant until the day he got selected for a random drug test & quit rather than pee in the cup. Several of the employees would whine and complain about having to do the most basic and necessary of tasks, and most liked to hide behind the shelving (instead of being at the registers ready to serve customers) so they could text (and this was before *everyone* texted all the time). I know it was a small sample size, but I do believe my experience is fairly consistent with the general Six Flags experience.

 

 

Another anecdote unrelated to my employment: I was at a park one time queueing for a coaster when one ride op announced they were going on break. Everyone else seemed cool with it until one kid piped up and said, "Wait! You can't go on break--you're the only one that's 18!"

 

I've never heard of another park that would operate a major coaster with only a single 18yo op and the rest 16/17. Granted, I've also seen this park operate several coasters with only a single ride op, so really nothing should shock me at this point.

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Well deserved drop. I said in on Garbles' FB post and I'll say it again, I sincerely hope this company goes bankrupt again and this time they don't recover. The people in corporate have no idea how to properly run the chain and the people at the customer level have no idea how to make guests want to come back.

 

Six Flags blows.

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Many of my coworkers hated having to show up to work. The supervisor of my restaurant was younger than I was, often talked about drinking and partying, and showed up hung over a few times.

 

I'm pretty sure that's an industry standard and not limited to Six Flags.

 

That aside, the theme park business is one where the phrase "you have to spend money to make money" is 100% true. Obviously you have to control costs, but unless you invest in infrastructure, employees, and capital projects you won't be successful. Six Flags puts everything in the capital additions pile at the expense of the other two and it absolutely shows.

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I don't understand what Six Flags is going for.

 

-Worst customer service in the business.

-Highest Parking Fees by far.

-Higher than average food prices. Miserable food quality across the board.

-Ignoring families and family attractions for the last two decades.

-At least half of the parks have horrible ride operations.

-Abysmal fluffy, fluffy bunny filled with medicine and goo Policies.

-Penny squeezing gimmicks that other parks don't necessarily use, like tube rentals.

-Cheap advertising gimmicks everywhere. Like, setting a global standard for as bad and cheap as advertising gimmicks can possibly get.

 

Do they expect good things to happen with all of those things in tandem?

 

They're going for money. Lots and lots of money. But not long term money though, just whatever they can rip out of their customers pockets after they've been sucked into one of their parks.

 

I was amazed at how efficiently monetized SFOT was on my visit earlier this year. It was my first time at a SF park since I was a little kid, and boy did I pay for it. It was something like $65 just to get in with parking, food was of course overpriced, there were rip-off games EVERYWHERE instead of nice park atmosphere, aggressive photo takers, and as always: the increasingly necessary pay to skip the line scheme. I left the park that day thinking there would be no way in hell I would have paid that much if I wasn't a dedicated coaster enthusiast.

 

They definitely loose customers on this model, and only win them back once every few years when they add something big. It's a scheme that only seems to work in a big metro area - I don't know how some of their other parks do it. I know I won't be back until they add at least a couple of good coasters, but meanwhile I'll gladly keep shoveling out for Silver Dollar City season passes every year no matter the cost. There's something to be said for providing true value and winning repeat customers.

 

We've certainly had many conversations on this topic over the years, but it still piques my interest: how much are park visitors willing to take before they give up on going to parks? I really thought the fastpass scheme was the beginning of the end, surely customers would revolt at being virtually spit on for not paying over and above what they already paid to get into the park, and that's on top of the lockers, food prices, etc, etc. I think they've really gone the wrong way with it all. Six Flags (and in some cases CF) is largely responsible for sullying the whole concept of amusement parks in much of the general public's minds. Start talking to any old person on the street and you quickly understand that they have two concepts of amusement parks in their heads: Six Flags and Disney, and they typically loathe the former and admire the latter. That's one the main reasons I root on HFEC and any other chain/park/project that actually raises the standard of amusement attractions in the public mind. I hope someday Six Flags has to compete with a customer service approach, but for now it's all about the quick money.

 

That turned into way bigger post than I expected. I'll stop rambling now.

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Paying $65 with parking to get into a Six Flags park is still cheaper than almost any major park in the US. Last September I paid $55 for a *discounted* ticket to Dollywood and then paid $8 to park. I paid less than that for a Gold Pass (with parking included) to SFOG this year.

 

As I told a coworker last week that told me he paid the full priced $61.99 to get into SFOG, if you ever pay full price to get into a Six Flags park, you have made a mistake. He actually thought the $61.99 price was great when found out it was a "Thrill Pass" good for unlimited admissions through September. Now he's planning to go back in a few weeks to take advantage of it instead of only making his originally planned one visit.

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I don't understand what Six Flags is going for.

 

-Worst customer service in the business.

-Highest Parking Fees by far.

-Higher than average food prices. Miserable food quality across the board.

-Ignoring families and family attractions for the last two decades.

-At least half of the parks have horrible ride operations.

-Abysmal fluffy, fluffy bunny filled with medicine and goo Policies.

-Penny squeezing gimmicks that other parks don't necessarily use, like tube rentals.

-Cheap advertising gimmicks everywhere. Like, setting a global standard for as bad and cheap as advertising gimmicks can possibly get.

 

Do they expect good things to happen with all of those things in tandem?

 

Worst Customer Service?--- Depends by park. I'm sure parks are far worse

Highest Parking fees--- And other parks charge more for admission

Higher than Average food prices--- The theme park standard from what I've seen

Ignoring families--- Bugs Bunny Boomtown, Thomas Town, Wiggles World, Bugs Bunny National Park, Need I go on?

Horrible Ride Operations--- I've seen worse and read worse TR's that would make Superman at SFDK look like Goliath at SFOG

Place to put goo--- Can't argue there

Penny Squeezing gimmicks like tube rentals--- Cedar Fair does that too

Cheap advertising--- Yeah, But have been reduced in recent years

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Even after several years of the "storage" policies at Six Flags somehow I have managed to have to buy one only once, and that was only because I had several medications/bandages for an injury I had at the time and I didn't want to carry it around all day. Maybe one day people will realize they don't have to bring half their house with them when they go out.

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