Six Flags New England (SFNE) Discussion Thread

Does seem weird to me that a park that seems to be so busy/crowded keeps putting in coasters & rides with horrible capacity. If I ever go back to this park, I will definitely be getting a Fast Pass!

 

If Six Flags would have been smart, they would have moved this coaster to one of the more obscure parks or scrapped it altogether. A B&M hyper would do wonders at chewing up the big crowds here.

Though, SFNE already has an amazing Intamin hyper. Also, this isn't the largest Six Flags park and the park isn't probably capable of having another complete-circuit 200'+ coaster. I think Goliath is a good addition to the park, at least SFNE is not getting Iron Wolf.

^ I don't know about how much more land is owned by the park...anyone know? Seemed like when we visited a couple years ago, there looked to be quite a bit of space over by Grizzly River? Like it has been said in other threads though - if they want to build it, they'll find the room...even if it means building over existing coasters or structures.

I agree that the park does seem to be a bit smaller than other SF parks, but I have heard that it always draws a very high crowd during the summer months with very long lines. Just seems weird that a smaller park would have a boomerang, get an inverted boomerang (with known maintenance issues) and have two spinning mice to account for about half of their coaster collection.

Yep, Bizarro is a great coaster and will always be the star attraction at the park. Just seems like they could use a couple more higher capacity rides/coasters to stabilize some of those long lines.

But as I stated above - I learned from experience that even going to this park on a Tuesday does not mean that lines will be short. Flash Pass from here on out if I ever get back to this park!

Anyways, Mind Eraser (20 minute wait) actually seemed smoother to me! Speaking of smooth, the crew here was getting those trains out quick, nice job guys.

I personally know (most) of the Mind Eraser crew, and they truly appreciate comments like this. I'll pass it along

My theory about SFNE is what it has always been. I think them having 'the worlds #1 coaster' is enough for them to not pay as much attention to it when it comes to new additions. Having the option of making a brilliant new coaster and adding an old one between SFNE and another six flags, they probably would choose the latter considering SFNE already has Bizarro and a great B&M, which is a privilege for any park. It being my home park I would love to see something added like Stealth or iSpeed, but I doubt we'd see something like that anytime soon.

^ I don't know about how much more land is owned by the park...anyone know? Seemed like when we visited a couple years ago, there looked to be quite a bit of space over by Grizzly River?city ri

if you mean Penguin's Blizzard River, I believe the land behind there may be wetlands which would make building something next to impossible. But on the other side of those wetlands...

^ I don't know about how much more land is owned by the park...anyone know? Seemed like when we visited a couple years ago, there looked to be quite a bit of space over by Grizzly River?city ri

 

if you mean Penguin's Blizzard River, I believe the land behind there may be wetlands which would make building something next to impossible. But on the other side of those wetlands...

This following comes from an old 2004 Six Flags annual report. I'm not sure if the company still shows individual park info in their annual reports.

"Six Flags New England is comprised of approxiamately 230 acres, with 127 acres curretnly used for park operations, 12 acres for a picnic grove and approximately 91 undeveloped acres."

Now whether the 91 acres are still owned by Six Flags, adjacent to the existing park or non-protected wetlands that can be built on is another issue. I remember hearing at one point that some of the land was further down the road but don't know for sure.

A large chunk of that land probably exists across the street as well where the present day parking lot is located. That wasn't built until the summer of 2004. They also own(ed) at least two homes circa 2004, a former roller rink (which is the location of the park operations building) and a former retirement home further down the street that was converted into dormitories for internationals. There's a significant amount of wooded area that's been utilized for haunts in the past, but as far as building rides there, they'd have to effectively cannibalize their picnic grove, which is a big no-no. Not to mention that they start to get close to residential again and there's some pretty severe zoning restrictions in Agawam.

From what I've gathered from the fairly knowledgeable people at SFNEonline.org, SFNE owns a parcel of land a few miles south, just inside the Connecticut state line. Some ideas that have been tossed around over on that forum have been to build employee parking on that piece of land and use a shuttle bus to take employees back and forth to the lot. That way they could expand into the existing employee parking lot. I think part of the problem with that plan however is that there is a 60 foot buffer zone on the western side of the park. That means that within 60 feet of the western border of the park, they can only build smaller/shorter attractions which meet a certain criteria.

The wetlands are a whole other issue. From what I understand, it is technically possible for the park to get clearance to build in/around the wetlands, but they would have to prove that whatever they build would not in any way affect the wetland environment. I have no idea what that would entail.

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing Mind Eraser and Flashback both getting the boot in favor of some new flats or a launched coaster of some sort. I also wish the park had a log flume. Maybe a log flume that used and recycled water out the wetlands could get clearnace to go back there in those forbidden woods?

Anyway, as has been said before, if the park wants to build something, they'll figure it out.

I'd love to see a flume there too, but it seems unlikely. The park actually had one until not that long ago. IIRC, it was removed to let the waterpark expand into it's old footprint...unless it was one of the coasters...I remember the general area where it was, but not exactly. I think it was one of the newer water slides that went in over it. It seems a bit unlikely that they'd scrap theirs only to build a new one, unless perhaps they kept the old one and could put it up in a new area? I don't expect to see it happen though.

I don't either. Just talking about fantasies.

The old log flume was located where Splash Water Falls is now, right next to the water park. Also, SFNE would be smart not to build anything in CT. Although it would open up some space (like you mentioned the buffer, not much can go in that area without a special permit) the taxes, as some of you know, are terrible here. And just to build a parking lot would be pointless. Maybe if the employee lot was moved across the street with the rest of the parking, and they had a special shuttle that brought them out the back exit?

Also, SFNE would be smart not to build anything in CT. Although it would open up some space (like you mentioned the buffer, not much can go in that area without a special permit) the taxes, as some of you know, are terrible here. And just to build a parking lot would be pointless.

What would be the difference in property taxes for a parking lot versus an undeveloped piece of land in Connecticut? Property taxes may be high in Connecticut but if you are not making money directly of the land or erecting structures I can't envision a big difference in taxes.

In this Article about Goliath, it states from John Winkler (SFNE park president) that they hope to get a minimum of two years out of Goliath.

The beautiful thing about test dummies, at least for the engineers testing Six Flags New England’s newly installed giant roller coaster, is that they don’t get sick. No cleanup necessary.

 

The human-like figures, surrounded by sensors and wires, were strapped into seats hanging from reinforced steel girders on a cloudy afternoon earlier this month. The array soaring above them, a complex web of pipes curling and looping from the ground to a height of nearly 200 feet, looked like someone without an instruction manual had tried to assemble an oil rig in a rush.

 

Goliath, the latest roller coaster ride at Six Flags in Agawam, has been undergoing hundreds of tests to prepare for its official opening on Friday.

 

The newest roller coaster at Six Flags

 

Built early last decade for a California park, its relocation and reassemby have presented a series of engineering challenges to rival the glory days of the space program.

 

Known as Déjà Vu at Six Flags Magic Mountain in California, Goliath can generate a force equivalent to 4.3 G’s, more than four times the force of gravity, along its 1,200 feet of track. That’s about half the maximum felt by fighter jet pilots.

 

Goliath is considered to be a marvel by many roller coaster enthusiasts and others fascinated with the science behind such thrill rides.

 

“The engineering and physics that go into it are phenomenal,” said Thomas Gatzunis, commissioner of the Massachusetts Department of Public Safety, which is charged with inspecting amusement park rides before they become operational.

 

Yet the question of how high Goliath ranks within the pantheon of top coaster rides in the nation is open to debate.

 

Jason Hammond, membership director of the Great Ohio Coaster Club, described the former Déjà Vu as “intense” and “absolutely worth riding.” But the ride is not ranked by CoasterBuzz.com, an online news site for coaster enthusiasts and industry officials, on its top 100 list of fan favorites in the United States — unlike Six Flags New England’s Bizarro, which Hammond said is widely considered one of the best roller coasters in the world.

 

It was much cheaper for Six Flags Entertainment Corp., based in Grand Prairie, Texas, to move Goliath to Agawam rather than build a new roller coaster. Designed as an inverted boomerang by the Netherlands company Vekoma, Déjà Vu cost $20 million to build in 2001, and $7 million to disassemble, transport, and reassemble as Goliath.

 

Over the course of five weeks starting in October, hundreds of workers spent thousands of man hours just to take the ride apart, company officials said.

 

 

“Every piece of that ride, from the bolts to steel supports, has its own engineering drawing,” said Six Flags’ chief operating engineer, Larry Chickola, whose job is to oversee the more than 700 rides at 19 parks. “We know exactly where every piece is and where every piece goes.’’

 

It took 75 long-bed tractor trailers to transport Goliath’s 192,000 pounds of reinforced steel and other equipment 2,900 miles to Agawam.

 

Over the past 12 weeks, hundreds of workers have swarmed the two-acre construction site at Six Flags New England, including crane operators, truck drivers, iron workers, carpenters, plumbers, electricians, heavy equipment operators, landscapers, mechanics, and computer technicians.

 

“You name ’em, we had ’em,” said John Winkler, president of Six Flags New England.

 

Some 7,000 yards of fill were needed to level the site before Goliath could be reconstructed there; 3,100 cubic yards of concrete were poured to support the ride’s steel foundation.

 

Nearly 400 gallons of paint and 1,440 man hours were necessary just to paint Goliath from top to bottom in its “outrageous green” and “hyper blue” colors, park officials said.

 

Six Flags technicians then subjected Goliath to about 300 tests, using 175-pound plastic dummies, each filled with water, to simulate human beings. About 155 sensors placed across the ride monitored pneumatic pressure, the speed of passenger cars, and other factors.

 

“Every inch of that ride is computerized and tested over and over again,” said Chickola, a veteran of Hughes Aircraft and Lockheed Martin who, among other tasks, designed hinges and drives for space satellites. “I love the physics of roller coasters. I love the way we can mimic the sensation of flight.”

 

Goliath is called an “inverted” roller coaster because its passengers are often upside down, harnessed into cars that ride along interlocking rails above them; it is known as a “boomerang” because it travels for 1,200 feet in one direction and then travels backward along the same track.

 

At each end of the track are 20-story tall towers, which use cables like those found in an elevator shaft to haul the cars into the air.

 

In between the two towers, Goliath features a 102-foot-tall loop and a 110-foot-tall “cobra roll.” Each ride takes about one minute and 30 seconds.

 

If all goes well, Goliath’s six-person crew per shift can oversee as many as 500 passenger rides per hour, or up to 5,500 riders per day.

 

There’s no separate charge per ride for Goliath; the price is built into the $50 daily entrance fee ($40 for kids) that customers pay to get into Six Flags New England.

 

Park president Winkler said Six Flags is hoping to get a minimum of “two years of rides off of Goliath.”

 

Thrill rides are based on the solutions to a fundamental engineering dilemma. Peter Fisher, a physicist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and an avowed roller coaster fan, described it this way:

 

“How do you make something very, very dangerous, and make it very, very safe?”

 

All factors of motion and stress, from the speed during upside-down loops to G-force pressure on steel-support beams, have to be carefully calculated, said Fisher, who has taught the physics of roller coasters to MIT students.

 

“The boundary between thrilling people and hurting people is pretty narrow,” he said.

 

There have been no major injuries associated with Goliath, but some amusement park rides can be dangerous.

 

An estimated 37,000 people nationwide were treated in hospital emergency rooms for amusement park related injuries in 2010, according to the Consumer Product Safety Commission; three people were killed in amusement ride mishaps in Massachusetts alone in 2004 and 2005, including one who was on Six Flags New England’s Superman ride.

 

“Knock on wood, there hasn’t been one [fatality] since,” said Gatzunis, noting that Massachusetts has since increased its regulatory oversight of amusement park rides.

 

Fisher, who has not ridden Goliath, said the point of thrill rides is to scare people – and the technology behind them will undoubtedly get more sophisticated.

 

He isn’t complaining.

 

“I’d like to see a roller coaster that’s so dangerous that you have to get a note from your doctor to ride it,” he said.

 

“That’s what I’d like to see.”

Click Here

What do you think?

I'd imagine he means at least two years of buzz around the ride - using it both this year and next as the "hero" for advertising efforts.

The reporter probably just got it confused and thought he literally meant two years of service out of the ride.

^That make more sense than the park president hoping to get only two years out of an effectively seven million dollar investment and then tear it down.

Park president Winkler said Six Flags is hoping to get a minimum of “two years of rides off of Goliath.”

"Hoping" makes it sound like Six Flags is not confident it will last that long.

I'd imagine he means at least two years of buzz around the ride - using it both this year and next as the "hero" for advertising efforts.

 

The reporter probably just got it confused and thought he literally meant two years of service out of the ride.

I agree with this.

^That make more sense than the park president hoping to get only two years out of an effectively seven million dollar investment and then tear it down.

Well now that it appears the ride rotation program is back perhaps they're looking at two years minimum before considering it for relocation to another park.

^ And we don't even know if it's back. Remember, with the original ride rotation program, new rides were bought with the intentions of moving them around every two or three years. I don't think that's what we're seeing now. I think we're simply seeing the new management realizing that certain rides would just perform better at other parks.

I was at SFNE's Goliath Media Day this morning. I'm having tecnical glitches with my laptop but will have a PTR posted as soon as I can. I wish I had known of those comments by John Winkler ahead of time so i could have asked him for clarification.

Yesterday I was at the park for Goliath Media Day.

Although the coaster may only be a relocation for enthusiasts, it's a big deal for the general public as the tallest looping coaster in the area. SFNE had a very well coordinated Media Day, with the press riding a few times along with contest winners. I missed the quick presentation by John Winkler as I was locked on the train awaiting the first "official" ride.

The park pulled out all the stops with excellent food and also free Sno-Cones, Dippin Dots and Kettle Corn.

For those that haven't ridden any Giant Inverted Boomerangs, they are fun. Much smoother than traditional boomerangs but the backwards loop in not as intense.

I'm in the right place.

Looney Tunes characters were out in force.

It certainly is big but looks out of place in Crackaxle Canyon.

But the awesome food they gave us made me completely forget about the looks of Goliath.

I think these were the first riders of the day.

Bugs Bunny chickened out and didn't ride.

It's only a Vekoma

This is where you sit.

Some guy with a magnifying glass is trying to take down Goliath.

Oooooh, there's a train.

Cobra Roll or whatever they call it.

I run into DaveH2O who was covering the event for My9News out of Hartford.

I think these are radio contest winners. They were announced as the first "official" riders. Making my ride "unofficial". Or maybe I'm a test dummy. Whatever!

On to the food. Buffet with baked beans, beef and pork brisket and what appeared to be macroni and cheese, except the macaroni with replaced with corn.

My first plate of food. I went back for more of the corn and cheese later, along with some Dippin Dots.

Coke Freestyle machines, I rarely drink soda nowadays, but did have to get a Vanilla Coke. Love, Vanilla Coke. Reminds me of Malubi Rum and Coke.

oooh aaaah. Footer enthusiasts rejoice.

I grabbed a couple of bags of Kettle Corn to share at my softball game later in the day. But my day didn't end at SFNE. I stopped by Wild Bill Nostaglia Store and made another foodie stop. Those will be posted in the Wild Bill's thread shortly.

Awesome pics! Looks like it was a good day. I love Malibu and Coke too hehe.

I also have A PTR from media day. ^Were you there at 4:30 with ACE or did you show up at 10:00 with the contest winners. If you showed up at 10 you missed the awesome lights that Goliath had on in the morning.

I arrived at SFNE around 4:30, as asked, and proceeded to check in. We were brought into CAC and stood around staring at Goliath for maybe a half hour/45 minutes before the finally began testing. Once testing was completed they let us all onto ride for the next 4 and a half hours. It was awesome. The queue was always empty, and re-rides were possible 100% of the time. I took a lot of this time to take the pictures for this TPR, as well as just look around. All in all, SFNE put on a fantastic event, I was so pleased and it exceeded my expectations for my first media day. Everything (except for merch) was free which made my day so easy because everything was right there when I needed it. I'm gonna quit the rambling and move onto the pictures, enjoy!

Arriving this early gave everyone there a peak at Goliath's lighting package, which looks amazing in person!

Goliath began testing around 5 I think. Maybe a little later?

Then the sun came up, but it was cloudy. So the next few pictures aren't that spectacular

Finally the sun came out, and Goliath looked beautiful!

Riding Goliath with absolutely no body there was awesome. I'm so happy I got all my riding in today so I won't have to wait in those horrific lines this summer

This was one of two places where we were able to get our lunch (this photo was taken around 7:30. We didn't have lunch until 11:30.) The other place was at Riverboat Cafe

I think this one looks really cool, even though it really isn't that special. It's just balloons.

Shipwreck Fall's old station looks awesome as Goliath's queue house. I'm so happy they kept it.

This, as well as the next, are probably my two favorite from the whole report. As well as the very first night picture in this report.

Artsy

Artsy

Artsy. These three were so hard for me to take.

Around 10 the contest winners showed up and media day kicked into high gear. Actors, magicians, free stuff, music... It was just a great atmosphere!

The stage where the ceremony happened as well as where the DJ was during the day. He played really awesome music!

I have definitely never seen those two costumes in the park before. (Not the cowboys)

Yup!

I really love this. SFNE did a fantastic job on Goliath's landscaping!

Perfect

So is Shipwreck's old entrance a new viewing area? Because it wasn't fenced off but there wasn't anything there...

But what the hell, it provides great views!

Flashback looks so pathetic right next to Goliath. It's just so small and sad.

Balloon race was running briefly!

Goliath absolutely dominates SFNE's skyline.

I thought this was a cute touch

To conclude, I just want to praise SFNE for doing a fantastic job with today. Everything was perfect! Goliath never broke down, the free stuff was a nice perk, and the weather couldn't have been any better.

That looks great! One question though (sorry, haven't really been following this coaster) but wasn't this supposed to get new trains from Premier? Or did that fall through/get pushed back? Thanks for the info. Looks great in its new home.

That looks great! One question though (sorry, haven't really been following this coaster) but wasn't this supposed to get new trains from Premier? Or did that fall through/get pushed back? Thanks for the info. Looks great in its new home.

The new trains are not ready yet.