Waldameer Discussion Thread

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Re: Waldameer Discussion Thread

Postby CoasterLine » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:18 pm

Offering a refund policy is just such a nightmare though. First, imagine the line of people that will go through guest relations throughout the course of the day, or more likely, the long line there would be at night to get a refund off of their card. Next, either the park would have to carry a lot of cash on hand (which is what they are looking to relieve themselves of by having this system in place), or they would incur administrative costs in having to apply the refunds to credit cards. Overall it just doesn't make a lot of sense to offer a refund policy on this. People will just need to get over the system, and manage the amount of money the put on the cards accordingly.


If it was handled through a sort of "ATM" type machine, it wouldn't be as nightmare-ish, I wouldn't believe. I'm not arguing for a refund system, I am just stating that I believe some sort of refund system (even if it was over "X" amount) might lead for more spending. All matter of theory rather than a study in practice.

I can't believe we are still talking about the cashless system in this thread. Everyone has stated their opinion, now lets move on. We can talk about it later towards the end of the season on how well it is or isn't working.


In all fairness, the cashless system is really the only "major" thing happening at Waldameer this year, and is the main discussion. Only so much can be said about any other addition to the park this year. This really is the main discussion point of this season. There are no new rides to really discuss, and there isn't much to be said about a new train, and new braking system for the Comet...
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Re: Waldameer Discussion Thread

Postby Myself » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:05 pm

^In that case, may I point you to Waldameer's Facebook, updating progress on their new kiddie ride? Sure, it's a small ride, but it's something. :roll:
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http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.326281800753184.70273.147520805295952&type=3

Since everyone likes pictures, I might as well throw in a picture of the new Comet brakes:
Image

If these prove successful, who knows? Curved loading stations could be used to minimize the space future wooden coasters take up. Compared to the Comet, the Woodstock Express clones (having an otherwise identical layout) have a straight platform which needs more square footage.

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Re: Waldameer Discussion Thread

Postby OISU8P » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:43 pm

gisco wrote:I can't believe we are still talking about the cashless system in this thread. Everyone has stated their opinion, now lets move on. We can talk about it later towards the end of the season on how well it is or isn't working.


Exactly and thanks for saying it. I for one I would not even think of planing a trip to a park with wondering how I was going to get a buck or two back from a card. If I where that strapped for cash, I would just stay home. Really, a few dollars is going to break a few folks bank? If so, then maybe they need to stay home instead and focus on increasing the home bank.

Now back to "myself's" picture update which is great.
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Re: Waldameer Discussion Thread

Postby TJinPgh » Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:22 am

Myself wrote:Since everyone likes pictures, I might as well throw in a picture of the new Comet brakes:
Image


I'm certainly all for anything that can reduce lines (although, the last two times I've been there I've had no wait at all). That said, given how short the ride on the Comet is once it leaves the platform, I really have to wonder if this ride will see maximum benefit from these. By the time the 2nd card reaches the loading zone and gets loaded, the first car will be back.

While minutes add up through out the course of a day, I how much faster the line will really cycle through with this.

OISU8P wrote:
gisco wrote:I can't believe we are still talking about the cashless system in this thread. Everyone has stated their opinion, now lets move on. We can talk about it later towards the end of the season on how well it is or isn't working.


Exactly and thanks for saying it. I for one I would not even think of planing a trip to a park with wondering how I was going to get a buck or two back from a card. If I where that strapped for cash, I would just stay home. Really, a few dollars is going to break a few folks bank? If so, then maybe they need to stay home instead and focus on increasing the home bank.

Now back to "myself's" picture update which is great.


Well, the assertion that it's "a buck or two" is an assumption on your part. It's likely to be more than that unless somebody is making a lot of trips to the kiosk, only putting a few bucks on the card at a time.

Having said that, it's rather pompous on your part to suggest that unless people can afford to throw away money, regardless of the denomination, that they aren't worth having as customers.

Would giving up a few dollars break my bank? No. I can afford to go every year. Sometimes more than once.

Doesn't mean that I don't know people who need to save up to go every couple of years.

Doesn't mean that I don't know people who will drive to Waldameer instead of Kennywood, which is closer, because it's a better value and with the money they save can afford to get away for a weekend rather than a day.
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Re: Waldameer Discussion Thread

Postby linearinduction » Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:54 am

I've worked with a CORE Cashless POS System at Cowabunga Bay for close to 4 Years now and can't imagine life without it! Waldameer was very smart about rolling out this Completely Cashless System over the past couple of years to avoid any major issues. The park has allowed most of their regular guests get used to the new system to make the change over go as smoothly as possible. The Cash Control and Labor Savings is going to pay off greatly, which means more improvements to the park. I'm looking forward to what the park has to say at the end of the season about the system! :)

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Re: Waldameer Discussion Thread

Postby TJinPgh » Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:04 am

Well, I'm sure from the park's perspective, there's little chance for a downside. Unless people decide to go someplace else, it's not them who would potentially lose money on the deal.

So, I'd be surprised if they had anything bad to say about it, regardless of what the guests said.

with respect to Cowabunga Bay, given that it's a water park and not an amusement park, what, besides food, would one be using a Wally-Card type system for? There's no mention of it on their website.

I find it interesting, though, that everybody seems to think offering a refund would be such a burden for the park. The park has been doing that very thing for the Water World customers for quite some time now.

Which begs the question, once the park goes completely cashless, will that practice end as well?

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Re: Waldameer Discussion Thread

Postby OISU8P » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:46 am

OISU8P wrote:
gisco wrote:I can't believe we are still talking about the cashless system in this thread. Everyone has stated their opinion, now lets move on. We can talk about it later towards the end of the season on how well it is or isn't working.


Exactly and thanks for saying it. I for one I would not even think of planing a trip to a park with wondering how I was going to get a buck or two back from a card. If I where that strapped for cash, I would just stay home. Really, a few dollars is going to break a few folks bank? If so, then maybe they need to stay home instead and focus on increasing the home bank.

Now back to "myself's" picture update which is great.


Well, the assertion that it's "a buck or two" is an assumption on your part. It's likely to be more than that unless somebody is making a lot of trips to the kiosk, only putting a few bucks on the card at a time.

Having said that, it's rather pompous on your part to suggest that unless people can afford to throw away money, regardless of the denomination, that they aren't worth having as customers.

Would giving up a few dollars break my bank? No. I can afford to go every year. Sometimes more than once.

Doesn't mean that I don't know people who need to save up to go every couple of years.

Doesn't mean that I don't know people who will drive to Waldameer instead of Kennywood, which is closer, because it's a better value and with the money they save can afford to get away for a weekend rather than a day.
[/quote]

Trust me, I did not mean for the post to be pompous. Let me clarify a little more on my reasoning.
I for one do not have money to just burn by no means I do plan out and budget any trip I make and try to stay on budget. If I go a little over than I do and just plan for that also. There are many tripe I would love to go on that are just not feasible at this point. I do not try to force them within a budget and just adjust down to something I can afford and have fun with that. I have found that it is much more relaxing to do this than have to watch every buck and worry about going way over. Just a personal preference.

Now about Waldameer and this whole buck thing and were that gets me. I a person complaining about this and saying they where just going to go to customer service and demand the reaming back. It was either on there blog, facebook or some news article. I can try to dig it back up if needed. Does a parks customer service really need to deal with people like that?
I had first hand experience lately with someone like that. My wife and I went out to a local bar with a few couples for happy hour. One of the couples fake dropped a almost empty pitcher of beer claiming that the table was wobbling. They argued with management over getting a free one. I just offered to pay for one just to make the situation go away. However, they kept pressing the issue with the bars manager. I finally had enough and was embarrassed to be associated with them and left.
These are the types of folks I am refereeing to in my post. Not the hard working guy or girl who appreciates what they are getting for their dollar. Sorry if that was confused.

Also, I figured the gas prices to get to Erie from Pittsburgh would offset any savings they got on admission and such. Well, at least maybe this year it will
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Re: Waldameer Discussion Thread

Postby Hercules » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:45 am

TJinPgh wrote:with respect to Cowabunga Bay, given that it's a water park and not an amusement park, what, besides food, would one be using a Wally-Card type system for? There's no mention of it on their website.

I find it interesting, though, that everybody seems to think offering a refund would be such a burden for the park. The park has been doing that very thing for the Water World customers for quite some time now.


First comment - A Core Cashless system (or just about any cashless automation system for that matter) can be used to whatever capacity the park desires. Here, Waldameer is merely using the system they had in place in a much greater capacity. Instead of just using the cards and wristbands to get into ride queues, they are going to cashless for everything. A park does not have to use cashless for everything, which I believe to be the case with Cowabunga Bay, which I believe just usess the system for entry into slides and attractions (someone please correct me if I am wrong on that one).

Next comment - I don't believe we are saying that it is a complete burden on the park to offer a refund. However, at least what I am saying, is that it just doesn't fit into the way of business they are attempting to roll out. Not offering a refund helps their efficiency.

And as far as the refund policy adding additional revenue and spending, I really do beg to differ. Let's say someone puts $10 on a card. With a refund policy their thinking will be "You know what, I don't need to spend all of this if I don't want to." Thus, they spend $5 if they want and get the $5 back that they didn't spend. Without the refund policy, the patron is still likely to put on that exact same $10 (contrary to the thinking that the patron would put less on a card if there isn't a refund policy in place - research shows that the customer will still place the same amount on the card). Now, either the customer will attempt to spend more at the end of the day because they know that they have to spend that $10, or, they will leave the park and leave that money on the card, which can do 2 things - 1. If the patron is local to the park they will likely re-enter the park at a later date to spend that money, and probably spend even more money at the park, or 2. Not spend the money at all, which is just pure profit for the park.

Another good example is this one - if a family goes to the park with children and the family say, puts $50 on a card. Through the middle of the day they have spent $47 on the card, and one of the children begins to get tired and act up. The family wants to leave the park, and the last thing on their mind is that last $3 on the card. It is more important to the mother and father to either tend to the needs of the child, and also tend to their own headache, rather than worry about spending that last $3 (not to mention actually stop at guest relations to get the refund with a crabby child). Pure profit for the park and the customers aren't shattered by the system.

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Re: Waldameer Discussion Thread

Postby gisco » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:09 am

The next person to bring up the cashless system is going to get a 24 hour ban!

Move on NOW!
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Re: Waldameer Discussion Thread

Postby Hercules » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:23 am

Not to be disrespectful, but I don't understand why we can't discuss this. It is clearly the hot button topic at the park for this year considering all of the discussion.

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