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Waldameer Discussion Thread


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The whole point of a cashless system is to bring in additional revenues. They will not offer refunds on remaining balances, I can assure you.

 

Actually no, the whole point of this system being put into place is to stop employee theft. Steve explained that saturday to us at Coasterbash.

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Oh, I understand the point.

 

I also understand that the system will likely cost them more than they'll make off of it.

 

First will be the expense of initiating it. The cost of the kiosks. The cost of installing card readers at all of the games.

Then, there is the recurring cost of the cards. No refund... no incentive to turn it back in at the end of the day.

 

Second, consider where a park with free admission and free parking makes most of it's money. Food and games.

 

While it may seem like a nice convenience for both to simply swipe a card, if they are going to accept debit/credit cards for food they already have that convenience without the card. And, if they use the credit card instead of the wally card, it costs them money on every transaction.

 

Cashless system at games? Not a good idea for a revenue stream.

 

Most of the revenue gained from games isn't in the decision of a customer to play a game. It's in the impulse of the customer to KEEP playing the game when they lose.

 

Load the card up with $10-$20 and, at $2 a game you're going to burn through that quick.

 

When you have a wad of cash in your pocket, it's a heck of a lot easier to reach in on impulse and grab some than it is to go and re-fill the card.

 

The LAST thing you want is the customer walking away from something to refill that card. Once they walk away, the impulse walks away with it.

 

Yes, it's nice for water park customers to not have to worry about their money getting wet. Of course, not worrying about money getting wet also reduces the need to rent a l0

 

But, beyond the local kids who might use the cards, there is no real advantage to using it for the typical customer.

 

This doesn't even touch on the money they will lose when the card reader goes down at the most popular games, as they no doubt will, simply from over-use.

 

The whole point of a cashless system is to bring in additional revenues. They will not offer refunds on remaining balances, I can assure you.

 

Actually no, the whole point of this system being put into place is to stop employee theft. Steve explained that saturday to us at Coasterbash.

 

Employee theft is a good reason to go cashless, but based on what TJinPgh posted, I wonder if the cost of running the system and the money they would save by eliminating employee theft is just going to cancel itself out.

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The whole point of a cashless system is to bring in additional revenues. They will not offer refunds on remaining balances, I can assure you.

 

Actually no, the whole point of this system being put into place is to stop employee theft. Steve explained that saturday to us at Coasterbash.

 

Isn't that part of adding revenue?

 

Besides, I'm pretty sure I know about this system and their thoughts on using it aside from what was said at Coasterbash.

 

Oh, I understand the point.

 

I also understand that the system will likely cost them more than they'll make off of it.

 

They have had the cashless system in place for a couple of years now and I'm sure have done very well using it. I don't think they would be making the decision to go completely cashless without knowing there will be some backlash from the patrons, and without looking at the numbers. The cashless system has been very beneficial to the park, and they have ways of tracking it. I think in the end this will be a very good decision for them.

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From a current employee perspective who is not closely tied to ownership, the cashless system has actually been a huge success. The gradual implementation with the rides in 2010 and games in 2011 has been so successful that the system is moving forward into concessions. Just from observations on lunch breaks alone, Wally Cards are already a popular payment option for concessions. Some people will initially complain out of fear of change, but all in all they will adapt. In my opinion, cashless is like Chuck E. Cheese in which when I run out of tokens, I have to either: A) stop playing, or B) get more tokens. Of course this is a basic example, but they seem to be ok when it comes to their games.

 

Additionally, last season Waldameer did have options at the midway games where you could purchase cards with cash already charged with points. I do not know if such options will be available this season on concessions or games, BUT Waldameer has also gone the extra step and installed several kiosks to purchase and recharge cards using CASH or plastic bringing their total up to 12 purchase/recharge areas. These are in addition to the admission booths and a couple other concession stands where cards are available for purchase.

 

I truly trust what the Nelsons and Gormans are doing with Waldameer. They continue to asses and explore new practices with this cashless system to make it such a success. Besides, when it comes to employee/customer theft, is it fair that some people can get away with free rides/games/food/etc. while the rest of us pay our hard earned dollars? I choose fairness.

 

I was and still am skeptical of this system, but they only way to confirm or put to rest concerns is to give it a chance with an open mind. So far, my skepticism has been greatly reduced.

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Ray Cammack Shows (the group that runs the midway at my local fair) went cashless several years ago and with only one exception I have not had any complaints. It sounds similar to Waldameer's system as you get a Fun Card that can be used for rides, games, or concessions. While you can use a credit card at concession stands (they might take cash as well, but I don't remember), rides and games have to be paid for with the cards or wristband (if it is a promotion day). The only issue I've had with it was on a $1 ride day. Since all the scanners automatically convert to the standard vaule at the time of the end of the promotion, and you are scanned just before boarding instead of when entering the line, I ended up waiting fifteen minutes and not being able to ride (missed it by three minutes or so). Waldameer wouldn't have this problem.

 

Honestly, for a pay-per-ride park where everyone will need tickets anyway, this is a great system. Now, if pay-one-price parks started adopting it for games and food, that would be a whole different story.

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Are the cards non-expiring? That seems to be widespread nowadays among parks, FECs and carnival companies, almost like an "excuse" for not offering refunds. I could see it being an annoyance for non-locals who may not benefit, but that's not really the park's problem. I still have valid tickets for faraway parks here at home, myself.

 

One thing people could do (though I understand many may not want to bother) is actually figure out the prices of whatever they want to do next, then load their cards to meet that exact amount. I often do that at carnivals (though getting denied at kiddie coasters messes up the math a bit). It sounds like there are plenty of kiosks that could make that more convenient, and accepting cash is helpful as well. Hopefully I'm understanding the system correctly.

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From a current employee perspective who is not closely tied to ownership, the cashless system has actually been a huge success. The gradual implementation with the rides in 2010 and games in 2011 has been so successful that the system is moving forward into concessions. Just from observations on lunch breaks alone, Wally Cards are already a popular payment option for concessions. Some people will initially complain out of fear of change, but all in all they will adapt.

 

My comment has nothing to do with fear of change.

 

I'm well aware of the usage of the system for rides over the last couple of years. And, other than when the scanners don't work (more often then most would like to admit), it's not an issue.

 

People were already wearing wristbands. It's not a meaningful change.

 

The point of my comment is a simple one. And it's based on far too many years of going to amusement parks with a preset number in my head of what I was going to spend only to go over it year after year.

 

Most people will initially load up the cards with what they think they're going to spend. When that's done, no matter how many kiosks you put in the park, it's far less convenient to leave your spot in line and go fill up the card again than it is to simply reach into your pocket for more money.

 

The card is a good means of supplementing cash because it requires you to carry less of it. The moment somebody tells you that you're going to have to figure out to the exact penny how much to put on the card, else get cheated of the overage at the end of the day, it starts leaving a bit more of a sour taste in one's mouth

 

Will I stop going to Waldameer because of it? No.

 

Will it affect how much I'm likely to spend? Yes.

 

I won't use the card for food, because it's far more convienient for me to use a credit card (which costs them money).

 

IF I choose to play games, I'll use it because I have to. But it will be based on what I initially figure I'll spend, which is always a good bit less than what I normally do.

 

I really have no desire to keep running back and forth recharging the card a couple of bucks at a time, knowing it's the only way to keep my money at the end of the day.

 

In my opinion, cashless is like Chuck E. Cheese in which when I run out of tokens, I have to either: A) stop playing, or B) get more tokens. Of course this is a basic example, but they seem to be ok when it comes to their games.

 

Can't speak to Chuck E. Cheese. I haven't been to one in years. I can say this, though. Of the various arcades in the region, the ones that only took tokens went out of business before the ones that took both.

 

Take that for what it's worth.

 

Additionally, last season Waldameer did have options at the midway games where you could purchase cards with cash already charged with points. I do not know if such options will be available this season on concessions or games, BUT Waldameer has also gone the extra step and installed several kiosks to purchase and recharge cards using CASH or plastic bringing their total up to 12 purchase/recharge areas. These are in addition to the admission booths and a couple other concession stands where cards are available for purchase.

 

That's fine. Like I said, I'm not opposed to the cards.

 

Just point me to the booth that refunds whatever I have left on the card (even if refunds are only given once the balance drops below a certain figure, like $10) and I'll have no complaints.

 

I truly trust what the Nelsons and Gormans are doing with Waldameer. They continue to asses and explore new practices with this cashless system to make it such a success. Besides, when it comes to employee/customer theft, is it fair that some people can get away with free rides/games/food/etc. while the rest of us pay our hard earned dollars? I choose fairness.

 

With all due respect, you're creating a false choice.

 

Wristbands with bar codes in no way stopped operators from giving free rides. I saw too many instances last year where the scanners weren't working properly and people were just ushered through. So, if it can be done when they aren't working right it can be done when they are.

 

The answer to your question is, no, it's not fair to make us pay when others don't. No more than a sytem that requires us to give up our hard earned dollars at the end of the day if we don't use them all before the park closes.

 

Either way, you're being punished.

 

I was and still am skeptical of this system, but they only way to confirm or put to rest concerns is to give it a chance with an open mind. So far, my skepticism has been greatly reduced.

 

Like I said, it has nothing to do with skepticism or even having a problem with the cards.

 

It comes down to simple facts. If I run out of day before I run out of money on the card, I'm going to lose it. Whether it's $1 or $50.

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Are the cards non-expiring? That seems to be widespread nowadays among parks, FECs and carnival companies, almost like an "excuse" for not offering refunds. I could see it being an annoyance for non-locals who may not benefit, but that's not really the park's problem. I still have valid tickets for faraway parks here at home, myself.

 

You could look at it that way. But, that's a pretty shotty way of doing business. The only way that you get regular customers in anything is to treat the non-regulars well enough to make them want to be regulars.

 

One thing people could do (though I understand many may not want to bother) is actually figure out the prices of whatever they want to do next, then load their cards to meet that exact amount. I often do that at carnivals (though getting denied at kiddie coasters messes up the math a bit). It sounds like there are plenty of kiosks that could make that more convenient, and accepting cash is helpful as well. Hopefully I'm understanding the system correctly.

 

As I understand it from Waldameer's blog, other than the arcade and the merry go round ticket booth, it will be a completely cashless system.

 

You can use a credit/debit card for food, aparently. Which is fine. But must use the card for games and cash is accepted nowhere else in the park.

 

Yes, I can certainly ignore the inconvenience and load up the card before going to a particular game. My point there is that amusement parks make a LOT of money on the impulse to keep playing a game that you've been losing, believing that you'll win if you keep playing. At which point, by the time you do win (assuming you win at all), they no longer care.

 

The problem with doing it the way you mentioned is that the only way to keep playing is to leave the line, recharge the card and come back. At which point, the impulse to keep playing is likely gone.

 

Like I said, I'm not opposed to the cards. And, I frankly like that they are finally allowing the use of credit cards to get food.

 

I simply prefer a system that allows me to reclaim any unused funds at the end of the day and a hybrid system that still permits the usage of cash.

 

One size fits all solutions usually don't.

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For the record I was not accusing anyone personally on this site as resistent to change. When I say people are resistent, I am referring to what I believe is that us humans, in general, are creatures of habit. All I was trying to do was address my personal observations from being at the park for an entire summer, and combining that with concerns expressed here. I understand concerns, and I have them too, but I do trust Waldameer's decision for the total cashless implementation until I have reason to believe otherwise.

 

Let me clarify my point about "free rides" that wasn't made very understandable on my part. Before the cashless system, wristbands varied by color based on Combo Pass, Rides Only, Water Slides Only, Water World General Admission, and reserved picnics (so food servers/event coordinators knew who was a part of each picnic). To add to that, the colors and shapes on each band varied daily. Therefore, besides having an operator memorize which colors/symbols was for the day, they were supposed to check that each guest had the proper wristband (pain in the butt when people wear long sleeves, walk fast, etc). Strip tickets also had to be collected if the guest used the pay by the ride option. Waldameer had no idea how many guests paid proper admission because an operator could either accept the incorrect amount or no tickets at all, or people with no forms of admission could easily slip by. With all that said, someone could make the argument that Waldameer needs better trained, more ethical operators. However, to regulate this would be extremely tedious and borderline micro-management (besides, imagine the employee turnover during a season alone). True, the bar code system is not perfect by any means, but I can confidently say 99% of those free rides are eliminated because a wristband is automatically determined valid and a guest will always be forced to present proper admission option (otherwise, the turnstiles don't unlock). I'm sure some things slipped through the cracks with some glitches, but they were few and far between and resolved quickly.

 

Next, I understand even more reading the posts on here alone how not having a refund option for unused points can be inconvenient/unfair especially for out of towners. Guess what? Early into the season I will make it an objective to talk to some of management about this issue, and see what their justification for this policy is.

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Here is a video I took of steve's presentation at coasterbash.

 

A few interesting things he discusses.

- North end was a success

- Happy Swing new for 2012

- New magnetic brakes for Comet and 2 train operations

- New L. Ruth express train

- Expanded maintenance shop

- They got the EPA laws rewritten so they no longer have restrictions.

- Beach front expansion in the next several years.

- New Ramp over the lazy river.

- New guest service building

- New images of america book coming out next year.

 

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For the record I was not accusing anyone personally on this site as resistent to change. When I say people are resistent, I am referring to what I believe is that us humans, in general, are creatures of habit. All I was trying to do was address my personal observations from being at the park for an entire summer, and combining that with concerns expressed here. I understand concerns, and I have them too, but I do trust Waldameer's decision for the total cashless implementation until I have reason to believe otherwise.

 

Understood. And, my comments on the cashless system was not based on an impression that they were doing it to cheat somebody or to be malicious in any way.

 

It was simply an objection to the way it was being implemented.

 

Let me clarify my point about "free rides" that wasn't made very understandable on my part. Before the cashless system, wristbands varied by color based on Combo Pass, Rides Only, Water Slides Only, Water World General Admission, and reserved picnics (so food servers/event coordinators knew who was a part of each picnic). To add to that, the colors and shapes on each band varied daily. Therefore, besides having an operator memorize which colors/symbols was for the day, they were supposed to check that each guest had the proper wristband (pain in the butt when people wear long sleeves, walk fast, etc).

 

I can certainly see the advantage of the current barcoded wrist bands from an employee standpoint.

 

Like I said, I have no real problem with them. Although, the need to have your wrist band scanned every time you go from the Waldameer portion of the park to the Waterworld portion has been known to create a bit of a bottleneck as opposed to having an attendant there who can simply glance to see that you have the correct color band.

 

Strip tickets also had to be collected if the guest used the pay by the ride option. Waldameer had no idea how many guests paid proper admission because an operator could either accept the incorrect amount or no tickets at all, or people with no forms of admission could easily slip by. With all that said, someone could make the argument that Waldameer needs better trained, more ethical operators.

 

You could. And, from a customer standpoint it shouldn't be me who is inconvienienced for the sake of an employee issue.

 

That said, loss prevention is always a part of any business and the way they dealt with that particular issue doesn't bother me, so long as the readers are actually working properly.

 

However, to regulate this would be extremely tedious and borderline micro-management (besides, imagine the employee turnover during a season alone). True, the bar code system is not perfect by any means, but I can confidently say 99% of those free rides are eliminated because a wristband is automatically determined valid and a guest will always be forced to present proper admission option (otherwise, the turnstiles don't unlock). I'm sure some things slipped through the cracks with some glitches, but they were few and far between and resolved quickly.

 

I'd be curious to know if they'e had any issues with attempts to counterfeit the bands. Barcodes are relatively easy to duplicate.

 

Next, I understand even more reading the posts on here alone how not having a refund option for unused points can be inconvenient/unfair especially for out of towners. Guess what? Early into the season I will make it an objective to talk to some of management about this issue, and see what their justification for this policy is.

 

That's certainly all I could ask from you, personally.

 

I could certainly make assumptions as to the justification of a no refund policy. And, they are not alone in implementing it.

 

As somebody who has worked in retail, it's typically the policy of retail stores to not refund the excess of gift cards. Though some will once the balance gets below a certain figure.

 

This, however, is why most people don't use gift cards for their day to day purchases unless it's a place they shop at frequently enough to allow them to use whatever's left. And, gift cards don't eliminate the ability to pay for things some other way, which mandates the need to guess at the exact total somebody is going to spend.

 

 

Here is a video I took of steve's presentation at coasterbash.

 

A few interesting things he discusses.

- North end was a success

- Happy Swing new for 2012

- New magnetic brakes for Comet and 2 train operations

- New L. Ruth express train

- Expanded maintenance shop

- They got the EPA laws rewritten so they no longer have restrictions.

- Beach front expansion in the next several years.

- New Ramp over the lazy river.

- New guest service building

- New images of america book coming out next year.

 

Nice to know about thoughts on a future beach expansion.

 

Waldameer used that property years ago for a beach club. They had an escalator going up and down the hill if memory serves.

 

There's a lot more land down there than it looks on the map. Could put an awful lot of stuff down there.

 

Wouldn't mind seeing them put in a water coaster.

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Last thing about the wristband debate. Counterfeit or fake wristbands are hardly even an issue. The issue is reusing them day to day. Cool thing about the "BAM" system is that the scanner tells the operator the difference between a "good," nonactivated/"invalid id," and expired/"bad" wristbands. Therefore, me as the operator could handle a situation accordingly. Same goes for Water World. Due to the nature of many local patrons frequently visiting, we can determine that expired/previous day issued passes aren't being reused.

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That is completely correct. The system that is in place reads the wristbands and can display when the wristband was activated (first purchased) and then the barcode is deactivated at the end of the day. The scanners in the park won't read a wristband that is more than a day old. Believe me, these wristbands cannot be counterfitted. They are of a synthetic material that can't really be found in the retail market. And with the barcode system in place, it is nearly impossible for patrons to get off with riding for multiple days without paying.

 

To add some additional information about this peticular type of cashless systems - the average park or customer that installs this system adds approximately 18% to their revenue within the first few years of using the system to its highest capacity. This figure is partially from money left on plastic cards that patrons do not use at the end of the day, and also from loss prevention.

 

Do not underestimate the importance of loss prevention at these parks. I know a small showman who put in a vending machine that dispenses tickets and wristbands, taking out the handling of money by employees. They saw an increase of nearly $600.00 per day.

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While I still have two "Wally Cards" in my wallet with money/points left on it that I haven't finished using yet, I feel this new system is beneficial to the park in terms of being adequately compensated for rides. I know many times throughout my childhood that I would go to the park, purchase 6 ride tickets and ride almost every ride in the park due to operators being negligent of collecting tickets, or checking me for a wristband at all, let alone the correct one.

 

Me alone, as a kid, cost the park revenue in free rides (of which I look back on negatively that my immaturity made me think this was at all a morally correct thing to do), let alone the others that ever did the same thing. Luckily the park continued to thrive and continues to grow.

 

While I can see this system being the correct thing to do for rides, I don't think that arcade games and refreshment stands should operate solely on a cashless system. I do not see the benefit in that, as arcade games are not a system that you could really "cheat," in terms of playing without paying, and the cashless system alone in stands won't really stop attendants from handing out anything for free that they weren't before (possibly to friends, family, etc.) Rides to me fit perfectly into the barcode/card system, but others seem more of an extreme to me that didn't need to be touched. I feel like this will lead to less of the "impulse" plays on the midway where people leaving the park might pull out a couple bucks to play a game before they leave, instead forcing them to load a card to play, which might just turn them to say "let's just leave."

 

As for the "no refunds" policy, I feel like this doesn't really affect locals as much as the out-of-towners that might get frustrated being forced to spend the remains of their card, otherwise losing their investment. As I mentioned, I still have two loaded Wally Cards that I know I will be using for rides this coming season, but for people from out of town, any residing money on the cards are pretty much a "park investment" that they will never see a return in, essentially a donation. It would be nice to see a "refund" booth type machine, similar to an ATM, where a card could be inserted, and you can get the money back. I don't see the negatives behind such a machine, other than it doesn't force people to spend money within the park knowing they can get it back afterwards. I feel with said machine, it would allow people to put more money on a card knowing they can get it back. For example, knowing there are no refunds, a person might be more cautious and only load a card with say $10, spending all of it. Where-as if they know they can get back what they don't spend, they might be more apt to load a card with say $30, and actually spend more than the $10 they would normally load with, but still get back some in return if not fully spent.

 

Just my honest opinion.

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Offering a refund policy is just such a nightmare though. First, imagine the line of people that will go through guest relations throughout the course of the day, or more likely, the long line there would be at night to get a refund off of their card. Next, either the park would have to carry a lot of cash on hand (which is what they are looking to relieve themselves of by having this system in place), or they would incur administrative costs in having to apply the refunds to credit cards. Overall it just doesn't make a lot of sense to offer a refund policy on this. People will just need to get over the system, and manage the amount of money the put on the cards accordingly.

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I can't believe we are still talking about the cashless system in this thread. Everyone has stated their opinion, now lets move on. We can talk about it later towards the end of the season on how well it is or isn't working.

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Offering a refund policy is just such a nightmare though. First, imagine the line of people that will go through guest relations throughout the course of the day, or more likely, the long line there would be at night to get a refund off of their card. Next, either the park would have to carry a lot of cash on hand (which is what they are looking to relieve themselves of by having this system in place), or they would incur administrative costs in having to apply the refunds to credit cards. Overall it just doesn't make a lot of sense to offer a refund policy on this. People will just need to get over the system, and manage the amount of money the put on the cards accordingly.

 

If it was handled through a sort of "ATM" type machine, it wouldn't be as nightmare-ish, I wouldn't believe. I'm not arguing for a refund system, I am just stating that I believe some sort of refund system (even if it was over "X" amount) might lead for more spending. All matter of theory rather than a study in practice.

 

I can't believe we are still talking about the cashless system in this thread. Everyone has stated their opinion, now lets move on. We can talk about it later towards the end of the season on how well it is or isn't working.

 

In all fairness, the cashless system is really the only "major" thing happening at Waldameer this year, and is the main discussion. Only so much can be said about any other addition to the park this year. This really is the main discussion point of this season. There are no new rides to really discuss, and there isn't much to be said about a new train, and new braking system for the Comet...

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^In that case, may I point you to Waldameer's Facebook, updating progress on their new kiddie ride? Sure, it's a small ride, but it's something.

 

Since everyone likes pictures, I might as well throw in a picture of the new Comet brakes:

 

If these prove successful, who knows? Curved loading stations could be used to minimize the space future wooden coasters take up. Compared to the Comet, the Woodstock Express clones (having an otherwise identical layout) have a straight platform which needs more square footage.

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I can't believe we are still talking about the cashless system in this thread. Everyone has stated their opinion, now lets move on. We can talk about it later towards the end of the season on how well it is or isn't working.

 

Exactly and thanks for saying it. I for one I would not even think of planing a trip to a park with wondering how I was going to get a buck or two back from a card. If I where that strapped for cash, I would just stay home. Really, a few dollars is going to break a few folks bank? If so, then maybe they need to stay home instead and focus on increasing the home bank.

 

Now back to "myself's" picture update which is great.

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Since everyone likes pictures, I might as well throw in a picture of the new Comet brakes:

 

I'm certainly all for anything that can reduce lines (although, the last two times I've been there I've had no wait at all). That said, given how short the ride on the Comet is once it leaves the platform, I really have to wonder if this ride will see maximum benefit from these. By the time the 2nd card reaches the loading zone and gets loaded, the first car will be back.

 

While minutes add up through out the course of a day, I how much faster the line will really cycle through with this.

 

I can't believe we are still talking about the cashless system in this thread. Everyone has stated their opinion, now lets move on. We can talk about it later towards the end of the season on how well it is or isn't working.

 

Exactly and thanks for saying it. I for one I would not even think of planing a trip to a park with wondering how I was going to get a buck or two back from a card. If I where that strapped for cash, I would just stay home. Really, a few dollars is going to break a few folks bank? If so, then maybe they need to stay home instead and focus on increasing the home bank.

 

Now back to "myself's" picture update which is great.

 

Well, the assertion that it's "a buck or two" is an assumption on your part. It's likely to be more than that unless somebody is making a lot of trips to the kiosk, only putting a few bucks on the card at a time.

 

Having said that, it's rather pompous on your part to suggest that unless people can afford to throw away money, regardless of the denomination, that they aren't worth having as customers.

 

Would giving up a few dollars break my bank? No. I can afford to go every year. Sometimes more than once.

 

Doesn't mean that I don't know people who need to save up to go every couple of years.

 

Doesn't mean that I don't know people who will drive to Waldameer instead of Kennywood, which is closer, because it's a better value and with the money they save can afford to get away for a weekend rather than a day.

Edited by TJinPgh
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I've worked with a CORE Cashless POS System at Cowabunga Bay for close to 4 Years now and can't imagine life without it! Waldameer was very smart about rolling out this Completely Cashless System over the past couple of years to avoid any major issues. The park has allowed most of their regular guests get used to the new system to make the change over go as smoothly as possible. The Cash Control and Labor Savings is going to pay off greatly, which means more improvements to the park. I'm looking forward to what the park has to say at the end of the season about the system!

 

- Sid

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