The Six Flags Magic Mountain (SFMM) Discussion Thread

^I hope your feeling is right because if it is announced for 2013, I'll wet myself. As much as I'd love to see an Intamin launch or MEGA-LITE, I'd love to see a Maverick styled ride that uses the terrain, or lots of airtime.

-Cookie

Found this on the Schwarzkopf website:

http://schwarzkopf.coaster.net/achterbahnen-detail-wagen-GF.htm

Scroll down and you'll see (about Revolution @ SFMM):

Unfortunately these very uncomfortable over-the-shoulder-restrains were added in the late nineties due to californian law.

I don't know which company is responsible for that painful "crime".

Probably something along the lines of "Sue-happy idiots would run us into the ground if we kept the lap bars, so there ya go."

-Aaron "Never got to ride a Schwarzkopf in its full glory because Revolution got castrated" H

^Not sure if this is the point you were trying to make (so forgive me if I'm just repeating you in a different way), but there's no California law for this. As a counter-example, Montezuma's Revenge at Knott's uses lap bars.

The GP want inversions, the enthusiasts want airtime.

 

Which is why rides like Sky Rocket at Kennywood are a good compromise. Personally, I would rather see a giga or hyper, but, realistically, a ride that would suit everyone's tastes would be a Premier-designed looper, with plenty of airtime and lap bars. Sky Rocket is just a compact launched looping coaster, but manages to have more airtime than any coaster at SFMM (I counted 7 spots).

Good point. Sky Rocket is a solid ride with fun stuff for enthusiasts that still seems to maintain an approachable vibe.

^Not sure if this is the point you were trying to make (so forgive me if I'm just repeating you in a different way), but there's no California law for this. As a counter-example, Montezuma's Revenge at Knott's uses lap bars.

You're correct. As far as I know, there is no law saying that there HAS to be OTSRs (Over the Shoulder Restraints) on any coaster with a loop (Look at Montezooma's). The lawyers insisted that SF put them on there so they did. Management has tried ever since to get rid of those clunky OTSRs, but OSHA law says that once a safety feature is in place, it CANNOT be removed for any reason whatsoever.

Allow me to close this post with an appropriate Simpsons clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u9JAt6gFqM

For the Hurricane Harbor fans.....

Virtual queuing specialist Lo-Q (LON:LOQ) is to install its water park system Q-band in another US theme park run by Six Flags, the world's largest regional operator.

 

Six Flags will install the system at the Hurricane Harbor Magic Mountain water park, which is next door to Six Flags' Magic Mountain theme park in California.

 

It will be the ninth Six Flags water park to adopt Lo-Q’s technology. Six Flags is Lo-Q's largest customer.

 

Tom Burnet, Lo-Q’s chief executive said: "We are thrilled that Six Flags has agreed to install our Q-band technology at Hurricane Harbor Magic Mountain. Q-band is one of our newest and potentially most exciting product lines. This additional park means that we are now gearing up to roll out the product into nine Six Flags water parks in the 2012 season."

 

Q-band uses a wristband that is waterproof and lightweight. People can reserve a "virtual" place at the park's slides and be alerted when the time arrives.

 

It a new departure for Lo-Q following the success of its Q-bot electronic queue management system, which it originally pioneered in theme parks run by Six Flags.

 

Lo-Q also supplies Q-bots to Legoland in the UK and recently signed a deal to install the system in

Legoland Deutschland.

 

In December, Lo-Q also said it was teaming up with MasterCard to develop a payment system for theme parks using its technology.

 

Shares in Aim-listed Lo-Q rose 6p to 233p, having risen by nearly 90% over the past twelve months.

Source: Screamscape/ProactiveInvestors

^Love it! Keep the Lo-Q and water park deals coming!

Can't wait to try this out over the summer.

Found this on the Schwarzkopf website:

http://schwarzkopf.coaster.net/achterbahnen-detail-wagen-GF.htm

 

Scroll down and you'll see (about Revolution @ SFMM):

Unfortunately these very uncomfortable over-the-shoulder-restrains were added in the late nineties due to californian law.

I don't know which company is responsible for that painful "crime".

 

Probably something along the lines of "Sue-happy idiots would run us into the ground if we kept the lap bars, so there ya go."

 

-Aaron "Never got to ride a Schwarzkopf in its full glory because Revolution got castrated" H

The reasons behind the OTSR 'debate' are far reaching, and in most cases not quite accurate.

From my research into all things in His glory, the best information I can find is this: When insurance companies meet up with a park in an effort to raise their rates, the park panics. At the time the restraints were imposed onto Revolution, there was a need for capacity. The par and the insurance companies had their sides to the arguments, but in the end the issue came down to capacity. Whereas a seatbelt (Montezooma's Revenge) is more comfortable, and closer to what He would have wanted in this situation, OTSRs are faster... and more painful in this case.

The restraint system itself came from Intaride- as they are the same OTSRs that were used on the first-gen Flashback (Intamin Z-Force) due to the size and position. (The Z-Force/Flashback vehicles had similar clearances seat-wise to those found on the Schwarzkopf Mk2A trains, and thus the OTSRs would have fit.)

Now in the end, we could attribute some of this atrocity against His ride to being dreadfully cheap. While the OTSRs on a Mk3A train ("Pop Up" restraints and a Lap Bar) from Schwarzkopf would have been far more comfortable, the costs were too high. Ultimately, this is case of 'Penny Wise, Pound foolish' in its finest form.

(And Revolution didn't get Castrated at all- the ride still has all sorts of goodness in it- but the OTSRS make that 'goodness' hard to find...)

Praise be to Anton.

R.D.

^ That's probably the clearest explanation I've seen on the issue.

And as was said, "Penny Wise, Pound Foolish" is pretty spot on as they ended up having to do other things to the track (brakes, etc) because of the added weight of the trains.

And now, once they have OTSR's, you can't just remove them.

^So that's why Premier could not just add lap bars to Manhattan Express. They Had no choice but to go with the original otsr's. You can file this law under "things that sound like they make a difference but do not really help". It is like texting while driving laws, three strikes laws, zero tolerance school policies, sex offender records, etc. They have not help make the country any safer.

Screw politicians.

Found this on the Schwarzkopf website:

http://schwarzkopf.coaster.net/achterbahnen-detail-wagen-GF.htm

 

Scroll down and you'll see (about Revolution @ SFMM):

Unfortunately these very uncomfortable over-the-shoulder-restrains were added in the late nineties due to californian law.

I don't know which company is responsible for that painful "crime".

 

Probably something along the lines of "Sue-happy idiots would run us into the ground if we kept the lap bars, so there ya go."

 

-Aaron "Never got to ride a Schwarzkopf in its full glory because Revolution got castrated" H

 

The reasons behind the OTSR 'debate' are far reaching, and in most cases not quite accurate.

 

From my research into all things in His glory, the best information I can find is this: When insurance companies meet up with a park in an effort to raise their rates, the park panics. At the time the restraints were imposed onto Revolution, there was a need for capacity. The par and the insurance companies had their sides to the arguments, but in the end the issue came down to capacity. Whereas a seatbelt (Montezooma's Revenge) is more comfortable, and closer to what He would have wanted in this situation, OTSRs are faster... and more painful in this case.

 

The restraint system itself came from Intaride- as they are the same OTSRs that were used on the first-gen Flashback (Intamin Z-Force) due to the size and position. (The Z-Force/Flashback vehicles had similar clearances seat-wise to those found on the Schwarzkopf Mk2A trains, and thus the OTSRs would have fit.)

 

Now in the end, we could attribute some of this atrocity against His ride to being dreadfully cheap. While the OTSRs on a Mk3A train ("Pop Up" restraints and a Lap Bar) from Schwarzkopf would have been far more comfortable, the costs were too high. Ultimately, this is case of 'Penny Wise, Pound foolish' in its finest form.

 

(And Revolution didn't get Castrated at all- the ride still has all sorts of goodness in it- but the OTSRS make that 'goodness' hard to find...)

 

Praise be to Anton.

 

R.D.

Though, Gerstlauer has those new Schwarzkopf trains that they can use on the Revolution, though I don't know if it would help capacity. Though, why would you need more capacity on an aging coaster with declining popularity?

Though, Gerstlauer has those new Schwarzkopf trains that they can use on the Revolution, though I don't know if it would help capacity. Though, why would you need more capacity on an aging coaster with declining popularity?

1.) The capacity issues were in 1991 before the conversion took place- which was not too much longer in the future for Revolution.

2.) Revolution still draws enough of a crowd for capacity to matter: She might be old, she might be rusted, but she still packs quite a whollop for a ride of it's age. Mind you, she might not be as popular as in 75, but I know that's the first ride I'll head to at MM to this day...

3.) Gerstlauers new trains are still prototypes- and only two have been built for HersheyPark. If they are successful, I could see them selling well. The average lifespan of a Schwarzkopf MK2a or Mk2B train is about 30-35 years... and even with overhauls, the ride itself will need new trains in the future.

Getting new trains is a good start, I think- but if they DO go to the new Gerstlauer trains, I can only hope they will opt for eliminating those nasty OTSRs.

^Something else I was thinking about: Lets say the new trains at Hershey are great, and they do sell well. If Magic wants to buy them, will that silly law that's preventing the OTSRs from being removed force them to be added to the new trains? Hershey's Sooper Dooper Looper didn't start with OTSRs, so its not really changing the design of the ride, where as here, it is changing. Any thoughts or ideas? (Does this even make sense? Haha)

It's not a law. There is no such law for OTSRs. It was an insurance company directive to raise rates. SFMM installed the restraints to keep costs low.

If they DO get the new Gerstlauer trains, I suspect we'd see a feature such as seatbelts in place of the OTSRs, along with a refit along the same lines as HP's refit: New lift assemblies, magnetic braking, and other feature upgrades.

Though, Gerstlauer has those new Schwarzkopf trains that they can use on the Revolution, though I don't know if it would help capacity. Though, why would you need more capacity on an aging coaster with declining popularity?

 

1.) The capacity issues were in 1991 before the conversion took place- which was not too much longer in the future for Revolution.

2.) Revolution still draws enough of a crowd for capacity to matter: She might be old, she might be rusted, but she still packs quite a whollop for a ride of it's age. Mind you, she might not be as popular as in 75, but I know that's the first ride I'll head to at MM to this day...

3.) Gerstlauers new trains are still prototypes- and only two have been built for HersheyPark. If they are successful, I could see them selling well. The average lifespan of a Schwarzkopf MK2a or Mk2B train is about 30-35 years... and even with overhauls, the ride itself will need new trains in the future.

 

Getting new trains is a good start, I think- but if they DO go to the new Gerstlauer trains, I can only hope they will opt for eliminating those nasty OTSRs.

Well, 30 - 35 years is pretty long. Most coasters built 30 years ago don't have the original trains.(e.g. Colossus, SFMM)

Though, Gerstlauer has those new Schwarzkopf trains that they can use on the Revolution, though I don't know if it would help capacity. Though, why would you need more capacity on an aging coaster with declining popularity?

 

1.) The capacity issues were in 1991 before the conversion took place- which was not too much longer in the future for Revolution.

2.) Revolution still draws enough of a crowd for capacity to matter: She might be old, she might be rusted, but she still packs quite a whollop for a ride of it's age. Mind you, she might not be as popular as in 75, but I know that's the first ride I'll head to at MM to this day...

3.) Gerstlauers new trains are still prototypes- and only two have been built for HersheyPark. If they are successful, I could see them selling well. The average lifespan of a Schwarzkopf MK2a or Mk2B train is about 30-35 years... and even with overhauls, the ride itself will need new trains in the future.

 

Getting new trains is a good start, I think- but if they DO go to the new Gerstlauer trains, I can only hope they will opt for eliminating those nasty OTSRs.

 

Well, 30 - 35 years is pretty long. Most coasters built 30 years ago don't have the original trains.(e.g. Colossus, SFMM)

Agreed- but Schwarzkopf coasters tend to have some very good longevity with regards to trains- especially the Mk2 series coasters. HP's operated with theirs since 1977 without fail, and Mindbender got theirs second-hand from other parks. They are durable beasts, and can last- but as repairs get more expensive, you will find a need for new trains- especially the Mk2a and Mk2b series. Since they were built to handle heavier loads (Once again, fine German design!) they've lasted quite a bit longer than most coaster trains.

I could see SFMM investing in overhauling Revolution with the Gerstlauer treatment- and using three five car trains.

Speaking of the Revolution, I found this really nice "vintage" photo of Revolution's complete layout on RCDB.com:

^^Everything looks so empty... A Somewhat new Log Jammer, No Viper or Roarin' Rapids... This is Very Interesting! Is the time era known?!

Correct, me if I wrong, but I do believe that picture shows three trains out on the track.

Correct, me if I wrong, but I do believe that picture shows three trains out on the track.

Revolution opened with- and operated- FIVE TRAINS. FIVE. FIVE TRAINS!!!!!

(Nowadays, that would require a miracle from Schwarzkopf.)

I think I actually see all 5 trains in the picture - one starting up the lift, one on the first drop, one coming out of the second drop near the station, one going down the drop toward the loop, and one in the brakes just before the station.

I think I actually see all 5 trains in the picture - one starting up the lift, one on the first drop, one coming out of the second drop near the station, one going down the drop toward the loop, and one in the brakes just before the station.

After further review, you are correct. The picture does show all five trains.

Rudie, I too have a fondness and great memories of Revolution and would be thrilled if it was ever brought back to its former glory, new trains, no trims, etc. I must say I admire and appreciate your knowledge and love for this ride as I completely feel the same way about it. It is a true engineering marvel designed by the greatest coaster innovator in history, is built to last, and truly in its day was incredible. Hopefully it will get at least some of that back. Whenever I visit the park I always make sure I ride Revolution two times or more. I remember riding it as a kid before the OTSRs and heavy trimming and it was a blast so when I ride it now, as im getting beaten silly I remember those great rides from the past.

And yes, they did run ALL 5 TRAINS, it was awesome! The best part was "threading the needle", one train cresting the loop the same time another train was running through it.

Can someone explain to me how a) those two trains on the first two drops are probably less than ten seconds apart, and b) they can be that close safely? I get that older Schwarzkopfs ran plenty of trains, but a ten-second dispatch with no safe place to stop the trailing train doesn't seem right.