Busch Gardens Williamsburg (BGW BGE) Discussion Thread

^Of course. In my in infinite wisdom I had completely forgotten about that feature of the site. It helps greatly and is definitely a great framework for how to plan my day. Thank you.

^You might want to consider Quick Queue, as well. Even though it will be outrageously hot this Saturday, I imagine that the park will still be quite busy--and the Roman Rapids will probably have a ridiculous line.

And I heard a rumor that Son of Beast would be torn down last year, and this year...that didn't come true.

SOB is rumored to get some sort of upgrade in the near future... at least that's the rumor.

Bad news for Mach Tower, ride wasn't testing yesterday. That doesn't look like a good sign.

^My point was just that we're getting on a rumor kick over something posted to a fansite. Unless there's any sort of source. Which is why I said I don't think there's any round for it. That, and Busch spreads out their capital expenditures - they're kind of expensive, with everything they put in to an addition. I wasn't calling out SoB for any reason in particular (that rumor mill can't seem to decide whether its staying or going!)

I wonder if Busch is now kicking themselves for going with these smaller companies for Mach Tower and the new coaster. Hope they have better luck next year!

^I hope they have better luck with Zirer. I'm not against new companies trying to break into the "big ride" business, but it's always a pain to be someone else's guinea pig.

I wonder if Busch is now kicking themselves for going with these smaller companies for Mach Tower and the new coaster. Hope they have better luck next year!

^I hope they have better luck with Zirer. I'm not against new companies trying to break into the "big ride" business, but it's always a pain to be someone else's guinea pig.

The idea that BGW is giving these companies a break in the big leagues shows either one of two things:

1.) Total 'testicular forititudinalistm' with regards to new designs,

or

2.) Somebody had been over at the old Hospitality House WAAAAY too long.

I questioned the idea of using Moser instead of Intamin or S&S for a drop tower (Granted, I questioned the idea of Drop tower in the first place- but that's my opinion on the park's surroundings itself. But if it turns out a great ride, Mazel Tov! (You won't get ME on it!)

I do hope that it's a case of flop for one, Mega-success for the other- and that a bad dress rehearsal turns out an excellent show. The idea of Zierer moving into the full-scale market excites me- as do the ESC train systems that have been leaked out from BGW.

I think if they do as well as they did with Groover's Alpine Express in Sesame Street: Forest of Fun the new coaster may really be great. Honestly, I think its not the fact that these smaller companies have never built this stuff before. I think they are just trying to build them too fast. Take your time and everything will work out.

However, it is like buying something new that requires "some installation". Do you stop to carefully read the directions over and over to make sure you know what you have to do? Nope, you put it together thinking you already know what to do, and then you have that one piece left over and you can't find where it goes, but it is super crucial.

Howl-O-Scream Update -

Pompeii will be renamed and zombies seem to be a theme for the new maze. Read this at BGWFans.com forums. This should be interesting. I might have to take a look in there to see what's up. As far as he "Cursed" area goes, last time I checked that place was bare, but I guess I might have to take a look there too.

NEW! - The Count's Halloween Spooktacular at Busch Gardens! It is a "daytime Halloween celebration" that will last 10AM to 5PM. Does this mean that Howl-o-Scream will see longer hours, maybe but most likely not. Just something to get the HoS rumors started. At least we know they aren't dropping the KIDsiderate theme just yet.

Christmas Town Update -

Has anyone noticed, that on the website the park map displays all the stuff from last year EXCEPT Rejoice? I guess they might have updated the site a little and removed the show? Or it could be a technical problem. Let the Christmas Town rumors begin.

I was looking at Wicked at Lagoon (Made by Zierer) to see if it had a delay too. And unfortunately, it did. There was a welding problem and a launching problem. But it was a huge leap for Zierer, containing a zero g roll and overbanked curves with just a lap bar. But companies goals are to not make the same mistake twice, right? I assume BGW won't make the same mistake twice and will make sure there are no flaws. :S

Anyway...why do you all think that BGW has been choosing small scale companies instead of the big names?

...Anyway...why do you all think that BGW has been choosing small scale companies instead of the big names?

B&M Isn't Small Scale?

Arrow Dynamics Isn't Small Scale?

...Anyway...why do you all think that BGW has been choosing small scale companies instead of the big names?

 

 

B&M Isn't Small Scale?

Arrow Dynamics Isn't Small Scale?

He means Moser for Mach Tower and Zierer for the 2012 coaster.....

You forgot Intamin

You forgot Intamin

Ermmmm... what?

Lots of confusion in here. Anyway, I don't want to be mindlessly tossing rumors around, but I did hear that Kings Dominion made a contract with Intamin, restricting them to build anywhere within a certain perimeter of the park...which BGW falls into. This is strikingly similar to the supposed contract between BGW and B&M...which most think to either have run out or didn't exist at all.

I don't think the KD/Intamin contract is likely at all, but it would explain a few things.

Is that even legal?

Why do people talk about these "contracts"? I doubt any of these actually exist.

^Because everybody's clued in with their industry secrets and special knowledge and stuff. It's the Internet!

Why do people talk about these "contracts"? I doubt any of these actually exist.

There's been a contract for everything. I'm surprised no parks have contracted any killers to take out the competition.

Who knows, maybe KD already did hire an assassin for Mach Tower Or maybe the employee that decided it was a great idea to mix ammonia and bleach together in the smokehouse? Loyal misguided employee or spy???

Howl-o-Scream List -

Haunted Houses:

- 13: Your Numbers Up (Ireland, EitA Queue)

Shows:

- Monster Stomp Revamped (Ireland, Abbeystone Theater)

Scare Zones:

- Widow Makers (New France)

Now we know almost all of Ireland's attractions, we just need to know where that next things is. I think we can conclude the numbers may be going in order around the park. I believe the next haunted house to be revealed is either Catacombs in France, a new maze in France/New France, or something in Oktoberfest. I believe they are going in order working their way counter clockwise around the park.

I have gathered information and based upon the first show and scare zone I created a list in order of what I think it going to happen. with the first haunted house info released, it only further confirms my theory. Here it is:

1 – Monster Stomp Revamped

2 – Widow Makers

3 – Europe in the Air Queue Maze

4 - Catacombs/Haunted House in France/New France

5 – Das Festhaus Show

6 - Haunted House (Still Unknown)

7 – German Gifts/Rhinefeld Zone

8 – Italy Pavillion Show

9 - Clown Zone

10 - Haunted House (Still Unknown)

11 – Wild Reserve Zone

12 - Pompeii Maze

13 – The Globe Theater Show

^ Mach Tower's cursed.

Why do people talk about these "contracts"? I doubt any of these actually exist.

Most companies have a "zone of exclusivity" type deal which prevents rival parks within a certain distance of said major new ride/attraction from potentially installing rides/attractions from the same company.

It exists to prevent other parks from potentially 1-upping said new attraction with an attraction from the same company and drawing people away from the original attraction (which could create tension between park and manufacturer). And it does seem to add a little diversity in the industry as well.

** At least that's how I see it **

Even then, I support Busch in giving smaller companies a chance and taking risks. They *kinda* did it with the B&M sitdown and look at how far they've gone since then. Zierer and Moser seem to be the next step.

^ Mach Tower's cursed.

 

Why do people talk about these "contracts"? I doubt any of these actually exist.

 

Most companies have a "zone of exclusivity" type deal which prevents rival parks within a certain distance of said major new ride/attraction from potentially installing rides/attractions from the same company.

 

It exists to prevent other parks from potentially 1-upping said new attraction with an attraction from the same company and drawing people away from the original attraction (which could create tension between park and manufacturer). And it does seem to add a little diversity in the industry as well.

 

** At least that's how I see it **

 

Even then, I support Busch in giving smaller companies a chance and taking risks. They *kinda* did it with the B&M sitdown and look at how far they've gone since then. Zierer and Moser seem to be the next step.

I have, in my 30 plus years of watching coasters, have only had verified proof of ONE such contract- and that was Oblivion at Alton Towers- and that was a range contract. Intamin, who opened up two of the worlds tallest back to back (2003 then 2005), would not even THINK of risking a potential sale by putting a restrictive contract or exclusive contract with a park- no matter how much money was involved with it.

It would be like Ford building a super-fast car, and saying "Well, we're only selling ONE for the next five years to your neighbour, and therefore you can't get one." NO manufacturer, no matter how impressive, would do that when you have a customer. Ever. It's bad business. You NEVER piss off your clients- even if they beg you to. For the price of an exclusitivy contract, you lose a shitload of money- not to mention future sales- to your competitiors. If a park wants something to hold for a while, they have to put up or shut up money wise- and that goes for Intamin, B&M, Zierer, Mack Mfg, Vekoma BV, S&S/Arrow, etc.

I hope this puts this issue to rest- as anybody who's seen this industry knows it's all about the size of your.... wallet. Not the paper it's made from.

Sorry to throw water on your parade Rudie, but CF accepted $2.5 million from Intamin in 2005. (Things that make you go Hm...).

Sorry to throw water on your parade Rudie, but CF accepted $2.5 million from Intamin in 2005. (Things that make you go Hm...).

That's news to me- Where do you have evidence of this? I'd be curious to see if it was a contract payment- or rather a reliablity clause (More plausable) for the downtime that TTD experienced.

It was in their annual report and didn't go into specifics as to what the check was for. One can assume there was a clause in their contract for Intamin with TTD that Intamin would pay if they built a clone in the US, or at least that's how I interpreted it. We'll never see the TTD contract, so it's anyone's guess, but the payment was disclosed on their financials.

It was in their annual report and didn't go into specifics as to what the check was for. One can assume there was a clause in their contract for Intamin with TTD that Intamin would pay if they built a clone in the US, or at least that's how I interpreted it. We'll never see the TTD contract, so it's anyone's guess, but the payment was disclosed on their financials.

I'd be mighty suspicious if Intamin did that; it simply doesn't make business sense- for anybody...

Let me give you a little history here of why exclusive contracts end up being a bad idea- and in some cases, changing history:

In 1932, Boeing Aircraft Company owned United Airlines (In 1934, all manufacturers divested holdings in airlines, this went for Lockheed as well) and decided that United needed a new plane to one-up the competition. Being foresighted, they created the model 247- a single-winged all steel plane that seated... a whopping 10 people. It bested the competition by 50 MPH, and flew longer legs than other planes. TWA, before being owned by Howard Hughes, went to Boeing and wanted to purchase 50 of these new planes- and Boeing, being short-sighted, turned them down- saying that production of the new plane would be exclusive to it's own United Airlines for the first four years.

TWA, not one to give up, went to Long Beach- and Douglas Aircraft co, with a similar specifiacation: Only make it 4 seats larger, and make it with better design: The DC1 is born. Further improvments that the 247 wasn't able to replicate were done to the DC1, creating the DC3- the world's best selling (And longest lasting; nearly 1000 are STILL flying today) airplane. The DC3, which came out in 1935, seated 21-28 people, flew 100 mph FASTER than the 247, and could go much farther in better comfort. It was SO good... that United after being divested from Boeing bought the DC3 as well- not to mention the 14,000 Douglas produced for WWiI, and the 4500 the Soviets made themselves (the Li2). Boeing, having lost their pants on the 247 didn't produce another airliner for mass sale till 1946- the Stratocruiser- and then later the Jet 707. The rest is history from there.

In the amusement industry, it would be suicide to sell only one of a ride when you have quite a bit of competiton. There are quite a bit more builders of large-scale rides now than 15 years ago, and now there are more breaking into the market every decade: Look at PAX for example, or Zierer now building large-scale rides (The ESC coasters, for example).

I think when it comes down to it, there isn't an exclusive contract on I305, Intamin and KD, but rather: A better price was offered by Zierer- and in turn the choice of Mack for Manta at SWSD.