The Great Escape (TGE) Discussion Thread

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Postby ttd rox » Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:57 pm

There's a waterpark right next to my house called Magic Waters in Cherry Valley, IL and I was there when an incident happened where someone was bleeding kind of bad (not like death bleeding) and they shut down the giant wave pool for the rest of the day and it happened around 11:00 near when the park opened.
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Postby Swimace » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:06 pm

^yeah, it would take a while to backwash/recirculate something that big

^^I think that's a good point about indoor facilities, those are a lot harder to maintain as far as chemical levels are concerned. The weird thing is that indoor facilities (in general) have higher Ph levels than outdoor facilities because of the reduced circulation and whatnot.

As for the "nooks and crannys" I would imagine that they would have that worked out. I'm both Red Cross and Ellis certified as a lifeguard (although I run summer camps now) and I would guess that this facility is Ellis because water parks get big insurance breaks for being Ellis (I think like 99% of water parks are Ellis because of this). Ellis sends people undercover to the facilities it certifies on a regular basis to check for problems like places the lifeguards can't see and to surprise test the guards on their skills and scanning. If you worked at Magic Mountain as a guard you'd probably be familiar with being in-serviced.

I think the lawsuit is stupid, but I would just like to know more about how so many people came into contact with this, even if it is a fairly mild illness.

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Postby SharkTums » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:09 pm

Yeah I'm pretty sure Six Flags uses Ellis for all of their water properties.

Have you been to an indoor facility? I'm not talking about deep water, so much as the little streams that run in and out of caves and stuff. Also there's lower lighting. Not saying this is what it was for sure, but I could see it being missed much more easily at an indoor facility than an outdoor.

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Postby ttd rox » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:18 pm

I went (snuck) into Magic Water's indoor water pump facility thingy with my uncle. It was really cool! It felt like my arm was going to get chopped off at one point (not going to say why) but other then that it was neat! A guy with a pink shirt and flipflops walked in there caught us but only smiled then I get scared and took off! :omg: Me and my unlce still laugh about that day. Anyways the indoor pumps looked really cool!
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Postby Swimace » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:29 pm

^^Yeah I've been to TONS of facilities as a competitive swimmer, and I've been to a couple of indoor water parks as well. I don't have any experience running an indoor pool or park though, I've only worked outside. When I see a lot of the indoor parks with so much stuff crammed into such a small place I would think that it would be a nightmare from a lifeguard's point of view, it would be really hard to keep an eye on all of that stuff.


Hopefully we'll find out more about what caused this. If the lawsuits actually go forward I'm sure there will be a lot of scrutiny on the place.

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Re: Nearly 400 Sick After Visit to Great Escape Lodge

Postby ginzo » Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:11 am

SharkTums wrote:Reality Check - Norovirus is EVERYWHERE...it sucks, but isn't too bad! Robb got it on one of our cruises, schools are always getting it, etc. I can't believe that they're suing Six Flags over this! Oh wait, yes, I can believe it, I just hate it! Find the nasty sick people that pooped in the water or didn't bother washing their hands and sue them!


It is, of course, possible that they just didn't properly chlorinate the pool.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1707 ... d_RVDocSum

Outbreak of norovirus illness associated with a swimming pool.
Podewils LJ, Zanardi Blevins L, Hagenbuch M, Itani D, Burns A, Otto C, Blanton L, Adams S, Monroe SS, Beach MJ, Widdowson M.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta, GA 30333, USA. lpp8@cdc.gov

On 3 February 2004, the Vermont Department of Health received reports of acute gastroenteritis in persons who had recently visited a swimming facility. A retrospective cohort study was conducted among persons attending the facility between 30 January and 2 February. Fifty-three of 189 (28%) persons interviewed developed vomiting or diarrhoea within 72 h after visiting the facility. Five specimens tested positive for norovirus and three specimen sequences were identical. Entering the smaller of the two pools at the facility was significantly associated with illness (RR 5.67, 95% CI 1.5-22.0, P=0.012). The investigation identified several maintenance system failures: chlorine equipment failure, poorly trained operators, inadequate maintenance checks, failure to alert management, and insufficient record keeping. This study demonstrates the vulnerability of recreational water to norovirus contamination, even in the absence of any obvious vomiting or faecal accident. Our findings also suggest that norovirus is not as resistant to chlorine as previously reported in experimental studies. Appropriate regulations and enforcement, with adequate staff training, are necessary to ensure recreational water safety.

PMID: 17076938 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


It sounds like this sort of thing is inevitable, but it will be interesting to see what the investigation finds.
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Postby Bucket » Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:45 am

I do think it is rather silly that a few of the families are suing. Some people will sue for ANYTHING, and that is just absurd. I mean, sh*t happens sometimes and there isn't anything can do about it. These families just need to point the finger of blame at someone and that is so annoying. They won't win their lawsuits that's for sure.

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Postby Purplepills » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:19 am

I agree it is ridiculous that people are suing because they caught norovirus. I mean its not pleasant but isn't it just a few days of being ill? IF there is fault at the swimming pool and this is proven then I would agree in fining the facility under health and safety grounds, but to try and sue is completely pathetic.

Just out of interest how much would you even receive for being ill for a few days with no permanent effects?
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Postby nagro5 » Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:40 pm

I don't know how to react to this. If their filters were working inproperly, and they knew that, then I would be able to see their point of view. If they just cought Norovirus, and are suing the company, that's just stupid. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.
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Re: Nearly 400 Sick After Visit to Great Escape Lodge

Postby Swimace » Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:11 am

ginzo wrote:
This study demonstrates the vulnerability of recreational water to norovirus contamination, even in the absence of any obvious vomiting or faecal accident. Our findings also suggest that norovirus is not as resistant to chlorine as previously reported in experimental studies. Appropriate regulations and enforcement, with adequate staff training, are necessary to ensure recreational water safety.

PMID: 17076938 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



That's really interesting, I really want to know how this will turn out. Is it resistant to the point were 400 people can get sick at one time? Because that is a huge number! I would bet that the facility did something wrong with that many people getting sick at once, but I guess there's some argument to the contrary.

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