Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT Discussion Thread)

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Re: Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT BGA Discussion Thread)

Postby Too Fast For Comfort » Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:46 pm

A.J. wrote:
Too Fast For Comfort wrote:And considering the fact that the RMCs actually do have high risk elements, while most B&M coasters (other than the hypers) are just pure vertical G's, its even more head scratching as to why the non-hypers all have OTSRs.

It's not just about preventing people from "flying out" - in many cases, it's about keeping the riders' bodies in place and upright. If you were to ride Intimidator 305 without the vests, what condition would your back and neck be in when the ride was over? Or Olympia Looping, or the Edmonton Mindbender, with insanely-fast transitions to forces of over 5 Gs, without the shoulder bars? Or a ride where you hang over the edge, but without that vest or shoulder harness that your body can safely fall into?

I would argue that B&M coasters' heavy positive G forces are exactly what necessitates the use of their vest harnesses, for the above reason. And for the coasters that don't necessarily need them, why should B&M waste all of their resources developing a brand-new seat, restraint, and related mechanics when what they already have will do the job just fine?

Also, for B&M's existing coasters, like Kumba, Montu, and SheiKra, a conversion to a more modern, possibly free-bodied lap restraint is virtually impossible due to the need for more space per seat (since the bars stick out on either side, as opposed to being strictly forward then down, like a traditional shoulder harness).

I'm not saying you're wrong here, but a lap restraint on its own, overhead or otherwise, isn't always the correct solution. Rocky Mountain obviously knows how to design a coaster that is comfortable (or easy) enough in the positive-G sections to not have to worry about riders' bodies curling forward.


I realize, I don't buy it though. I think its just about insurance rates and perception.

I've ridden a ton of coasters with OTSR's, and every time I get off I always silently think to myself either:
1. That as a great/good/pretty good/etc. ride, but imgagine how much better it would be with lapbars.
2. That was a bad ride. But it may have been a little better with lapbars.

Never in my life have I gotten off a coaster with lapbars and wanted an OTSR. I think that the heavy duty RMC lapbars do a great job of keeping you in place, and there's no real value that an OTSR could add. Its not just personal preference and comfort, but many people with anxiety issues really get freaked out by being in massive obstructed harnesses as well. And there's the CTE issues that we're learning more and more about that headbanging can potentially cause (its not just a coaster enthusiast nitpick anymore).

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Re: Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT BGA Discussion Thread)

Postby coasterbill » Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:54 pm

Dombot wrote:
coasterbill wrote:The ride lineup is generally all adult coasters (except for Scorpion)

Correction: Scorpion has been open the past two years I've been to the event.


That's nice to hear. I never really understood why they kept closing it for the event (especially while keeping the mouse open).

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Re: Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT BGA Discussion Thread)

Postby Intamin_coyote » Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:55 pm

Too Fast For Comfort wrote:
A.J. wrote:
Too Fast For Comfort wrote:And considering the fact that the RMCs actually do have high risk elements, while most B&M coasters (other than the hypers) are just pure vertical G's, its even more head scratching as to why the non-hypers all have OTSRs.

It's not just about preventing people from "flying out" - in many cases, it's about keeping the riders' bodies in place and upright. If you were to ride Intimidator 305 without the vests, what condition would your back and neck be in when the ride was over? Or Olympia Looping, or the Edmonton Mindbender, with insanely-fast transitions to forces of over 5 Gs, without the shoulder bars? Or a ride where you hang over the edge, but without that vest or shoulder harness that your body can safely fall into?

I would argue that B&M coasters' heavy positive G forces are exactly what necessitates the use of their vest harnesses, for the above reason. And for the coasters that don't necessarily need them, why should B&M waste all of their resources developing a brand-new seat, restraint, and related mechanics when what they already have will do the job just fine?

Also, for B&M's existing coasters, like Kumba, Montu, and SheiKra, a conversion to a more modern, possibly free-bodied lap restraint is virtually impossible due to the need for more space per seat (since the bars stick out on either side, as opposed to being strictly forward then down, like a traditional shoulder harness).

I'm not saying you're wrong here, but a lap restraint on its own, overhead or otherwise, isn't always the correct solution. Rocky Mountain obviously knows how to design a coaster that is comfortable (or easy) enough in the positive-G sections to not have to worry about riders' bodies curling forward.


I realize, I don't buy it though. I think its just about insurance rates and perception.

I've ridden a ton of coasters with OTSR's, and every time I get off I always silently think to myself either:
1. That as a great/good/pretty good/etc. ride, but imgagine how much better it would be with lapbars.
2. That was a bad ride. But it may have been a little better with lapbars.

Its not just personal preference and comfort, but many people with anxiety issues really get freaked out by being in massive obstructed harnesses as well. And there's the CTE issues that we're learning more and more about that headbanging can potentially cause (its not just a coaster enthusiast nitpick anymore).


Never have I've heard of a person being "freaked out" by a harness. If anything, its the opposite. I commonly hear about guests being frightened by lap bars only, even on B&M hypers. I still remember my friends being so shocked when Diamondback opened in 2009, "How are they're only lap bars!" They said :lmao:

As for "CTE issues', the new vest restrainsts (not just for B&M, but Vekoma as well), make headbanging a thing of the past.
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Re: Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT BGA Discussion Thread)

Postby A.J. » Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:50 pm

Too Fast For Comfort wrote:I realize, I don't buy it though. I think its just about insurance rates and perception.

If you don't buy it, than how exactly would a lap bar keep your body in an upright seated position, on its own, during, say, Montu's batwing element? Even with a shoulder harness I can really feel the strain on my neck.
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Re: Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT BGA Discussion Thread)

Postby Too Fast For Comfort » Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:31 am

A.J. wrote:
Too Fast For Comfort wrote:I realize, I don't buy it though. I think its just about insurance rates and perception.

If you don't buy it, than how exactly would a lap bar keep your body in an upright seated position, on its own, during, say, Montu's batwing element? Even with a shoulder harness I can really feel the strain on my neck.


Coasters without floors might be an exception. Even then, I at least prefer a light comfort collar or something like that. I can see with T3 and Sky Rush that no floor and lapbars cause thigh crushing issues, and possibly other ones too. I think that having a floor gives your legs something to push down on when the going gets tough. But personally, I'd still take the open free feeling.

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Re: Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT BGA Discussion Thread)

Postby bill_s » Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:51 am

One thing with high positive G's people do sometimes pass out and ragdoll people on, for example, I305's twisties sounds like a really bad idea. Another is that I must admit my back feels great after a good B&M OTSR stapling.

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Re: Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT BGA Discussion Thread)

Postby ShaneH » Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:50 am

bill_s wrote:One thing with high positive G's people do sometimes pass out and ragdoll people on, for example, I305's twisties sounds like a really bad idea. Another is that I must admit my back feels great after a good B&M OTSR stapling.


When I blacked out on Millennium Force my head was between my knees. It wasn't comfortable and with a ride that has more G forces it could be a major problem.

Another reason some rides should have OTSRs is if there are strong forward Gs that are found in elements like batwings. RMC coasters don't have very many forward Gs because all their inversions are rolls and not inversions that are exited vertically with the exception of Goliaths dive loop. Therefore no OTSRs are needed on their rides.
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Re: Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT BGA Discussion Thread)

Postby coasterbill » Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:11 am

This doesn't even impact me (I was checking fall dates since we're planning a quick weekend trip later this year), but who decided to close the log flume for refurb in August in Florida?

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Re: Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT BGA Discussion Thread)

Postby djcoastermark » Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:29 am

^ Yes CB at first it does seem insane to close a water ride in Floriduh in August, but, when they are doing this makes sense from the parks' POV. Schools are back in session here and the park is totally dead during that time. I mean really dead, as in the parking lot for disabled and premium passers is open to the general public. (or used to be) If you go at that time, it is a very odd experience as you feel like you have the entire park to yourself. It can actually be kind of spooky how dead it can be.

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Re: Busch Gardens Tampa Bay (BGT BGA Discussion Thread)

Postby Dombot » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:31 am

^ What he said. I went on a field trip on a Thursday when I was in like seventh grade and the park was a ghost town. I lost count on how many times I rode SheiKra that day. :lol:

While we're on the subject of refurbishments, any word on Phoenix? It's been closed for almost a year now, I think... maybe longer than that. Is it officially SBNO? Are they doing a complete overhaul of the ride mechanism or something? :?r
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