Cedar Fair Corporate Development Discussion Thread (FUN)

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Re: Cedar Fair Corporate Development Discussion Thread (FUN)

Postby robbalvey » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:34 pm

FutureMan2 wrote:When it comes to safety the parks are no less safe than any other waterpark our there.

Would you like to tell that to the young adult girls who were approached by human traffickers that were let into the park by the guy who owns the park? Yes this happened. Because of him. At his water parks. And I'm sure his employees were 100% okay with it and felt "safe", right?
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Re: Cedar Fair Corporate Development Discussion Thread (FUN)

Postby robbalvey » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:37 pm

FutureMan2 wrote:
robbalvey wrote:
FutureMan2 wrote:I realize the severity of what you’re referring to however the Schlitterbahn in New Braunfels is easily the best Waterparks out there. You might want to make it down there soon since Cedar Fair has a very corporate way of doing things. Schlitterbahn is (was?) like the water park version of Knoebels

Completely disagree. I cannot be the only one who always thought that Schlitterbahn in New Braunfels was completely overrated, difficult to navigate, slides were totally "meh", and overall the park was a pain the ass to visit, right?

And trust me, I've tried SEVERAL TIMES going to that park with an open mindset and I've always walked away going "I really don't get it."

IMO, calling it the Knoebels of water parks is a huge insult to Knoebels.


Ah, I was wondering why this was the only forum where I’ve seen negative comments about Schlitterbahn.

I understand it might not be for you (or your followers) but it is widely considered to be the best water park.


Wrong. Show me a list outside of the Golden Tickets claiming it to be the "best water park."

Screen Shot 2019-06-14 at 8.24.14 PM.png

I have about as much respect for the Golden Ticket Awards as I do for our current president: Zero.

I'm not sorry if you're offended that TPR people like to post honest commentary about parks based on actual REAL experiences, and not have our noses up someone's ass based on how much money a park is spending on advertising or what events they'll host for an organization.

Honestly, I'm really hoping that Cedar Fair bulldozes most of the park and completely re-designs it. It could most certainly use some modernization so that every time I get into one of their pools I don't feel like I might come out of it having some sort of brain eating parasite attached to my body.

EDIT: Seriously, look at this list. You don't see anything wrong with this?
Screen Shot 2019-06-14 at 8.30.44 PM.jpg

Sure, this is just the "opinion" of one organization, but when you have parks out there like BIizzard Beach, Typhoon Lagoon, Volcano Bay, WIld Wadi, Siam Park, Yas Waterworld, Aquaventure, you're giving it to Schlitterbahn??? For TWENTY YEARS in a row??? Yeah, no... that doesn't add up. That's what we call "bullshit."
Last edited by robbalvey on Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:05 pm.

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Re: Cedar Fair Corporate Development Discussion Thread (FUN)

Postby FutureMan2 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:24 pm

robbalvey wrote:
FutureMan2 wrote:
robbalvey wrote:
FutureMan2 wrote:I realize the severity of what you’re referring to however the Schlitterbahn in New Braunfels is easily the best Waterparks out there. You might want to make it down there soon since Cedar Fair has a very corporate way of doing things. Schlitterbahn is (was?) like the water park version of Knoebels

Completely disagree. I cannot be the only one who always thought that Schlitterbahn in New Braunfels was completely overrated, difficult to navigate, slides were totally "meh", and overall the park was a pain the ass to visit, right?

And trust me, I've tried SEVERAL TIMES going to that park with an open mindset and I've always walked away going "I really don't get it."

IMO, calling it the Knoebels of water parks is a huge insult to Knoebels.


Ah, I was wondering why this was the only forum where I’ve seen negative comments about Schlitterbahn.

I understand it might not be for you (or your followers) but it is widely considered to be the best water park.


Wrong. Show me a list outside of the Golden Tickets claiming it to be the "best water park."

Screen Shot 2019-06-14 at 8.24.14 PM.png

I have about as much respect for the Golden Ticket Awards as I do for our current president: Zero.

I'm not sorry if you're offended that TPR people like to post honest commentary about parks based on actual REAL experiences, and not have our noses up someone's ass based on how much money a park is spending on advertising or what events they'll host for an organization.

Honestly, I'm really hoping that Cedar Fair bulldozes most of the park and completely re-designs it. It could most certainly use some modernization so that every time I get into one of their pools I don't feel like I might come out of it having some sort of brain eating parasite attached to my body.

EDIT: Seriously, look at this list. You don't see anything wrong with this?
Screen Shot 2019-06-14 at 8.30.44 PM.jpg

Sure, this is just the "opinion" of one organization, but when you have parks out there like BIizzard Beach, Typhoon Lagoon, Volcano Bay, WIld Wadi, Siam Park, Yas Waterworld, Aquaventure, you're giving it to Schlitterbahn??? For TWENTY YEARS in a row??? Yeah, no... that doesn't add up. That's what we call "bullshit."


Well first of all. I never mentioned the Golden Ticket Awards, you did. On the subject of them, part of their goal is to highlight parks outside of Orlando. Does Knoebels really have the best food of ANY park? Does Busch Gardens Williamsburg really have the best landscaping of ANY park? No.. of course not. obviously not. But that’s a different discussion though.


People do base their opinions off their own experiences but you can’t deny your effect on others.
Robb you have an entire website and people are influenced by what you say. It’s very clear.

I’m not offended by anything said. I’m not that kind of person. I’m just making an observation. At the end of the day I thought it was strange this was the only board I’ve seen with negative comments on the parks themselves and I’m not one to believe in coincidences.

When it comes to “proving you wrong”. Really it’s moreso on you to prove that it isn’t a top water park than for me to prove to you that it is. Every person I’ve talked to (GP or enthusiast) across the country says how great it was when then went. They light up and say something to the effect of how it was so different than anything else they’ve ever seen.

Something to add here: I realize the internet isn’t the best place to have debates but I want to be clear. At the end of the day we disagree and that’s OK. I do appreciate what you have done for the industry but we don’t have to agree on everything.

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Re: Cedar Fair Corporate Development Discussion Thread (FUN)

Postby robbalvey » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:30 pm

FutureMan2 wrote:Well first of all. I never mentioned the Golden Ticket Awards, you did. On the subject of them, part of their goal is to highlight parks outside of Orlando. Does Knoebels really have the best food of ANY park? Does Busch Gardens Williamsburg really have the best landscaping of ANY park? No.. of course not. obviously not. But that’s a different discussion though.

People do base their opinions off their own experiences but you can’t deny your effect on others.
Robb you have an entire website and people are influenced by what you say. It’s very clear.

I’m not offended by anything said. I’m not that kind of person. I’m just making an observation. At the end of the day I thought it was strange this was the only board I’ve seen with negative comments on the parks themselves and I’m not one to believe in coincidences.

When it comes to “proving you wrong”. Really it’s moreso on you to prove that it isn’t a top water park than for me to prove to you that it is. Every person I’ve talked to (GP or enthusiast) across the country says how great it was when then went. They light up and say something to the effect of how it was so different than anything else they’ve ever seen.

Image
Ok... okay... Thanks for your input, if that's what you call it. I'm going to move on to other discussions now that aren't completely stupid. Thanks.

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Re: Cedar Fair Corporate Development Discussion Thread (FUN)

Postby larrygator » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:13 pm

I know it is unlikely to happen, but if Cedar Fair could obtain the rights to manage Moody Gardens (in Galveston) under a similar set-up as Gilroy Gardens that would make for a nice foothold in the area. It might not significantly increase attendance at either but could drive people to purchase season passes.


As far as the KC location goes, it will never be re-opened as a waterpark under CF. It will be solely a real estate flip for CP. The sports park idea will not work because that strategy relays on have hotel rooms to book for these participants which CF does not have in KC.
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Re: Cedar Fair Corporate Development Discussion Thread (FUN)

Postby verruckt1 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:45 pm

Just curious, does anyone think it's possible that Cedar Fair will buy the KC Schlitterbahn and relocate all the watersides from there to Worlds of Fun since it's so close.

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Re: Cedar Fair Corporate Development Discussion Thread (FUN)

Postby Coasterguy21 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:03 pm

larrygator wrote:I know it is unlikely to happen, but if Cedar Fair could obtain the rights to manage Moody Gardens (in Galveston) under a similar set-up as Gilroy Gardens that would make for a nice foothold in the area. It might not significantly increase attendance at either but could drive people to purchase season passes.


As far as the KC location goes, it will never be re-opened as a waterpark under CF. It will be solely a real estate flip for CP. The sports park idea will not work because that strategy relays on have hotel rooms to book for these participants which CF does not have in KC.


That's a good idea.

As for the KC waterpark, I wouldn't be so sure about that. They made it clear to the local newspapers that they feel it could create synergy with Worlds of Fun/Oceans of Fun. Of course, they're looking into it still, but did state if they bought it, they would open it under a different name that is not Schlitterbahn. Either way, even if it was just a flip, $6 million doesn't seem too bad as an option. But with them wanting to close before the end of the month, I'm not sure if they'll finish the "fact finding stage" in enough time. They'll retain the brand for the Texas parks (that could still change though), but they said KC would be rebranded if they bought it. EPR Properties, who owns the mortgage, expects it to be paid in full, no matter what!

verruckt1 wrote:Just curious, does anyone think it's possible that Cedar Fair will buy the KC Schlitterbahn and relocate all the watersides from there to Worlds of Fun since it's so close.


Possible, not not super likely! They could disperse the assets to many of the parks. However, when Geauga Lake's WildWater Kingdom closed, they scrapped everything. Some of the slides weren't even 10 years old. Slide relocation or not, the land the park sits on could be worth a pretty penny due to its location. It'll be interesting to see what options they pursue with it! They kept the option in for a reason. The Henry Family still plans to own the South Padre Island Schiltterbahn (but will have to rebrand due to Cedar Fair taking over the brand), so there is interest in the KC property for one reason or another.
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Re: Cedar Fair Corporate Development Discussion Thread (FUN)

Postby Houston Thrills » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:07 pm

larrygator wrote:I know it is unlikely to happen, but if Cedar Fair could obtain the rights to manage Moody Gardens (in Galveston) under a similar set-up as Gilroy Gardens that would make for a nice foothold in the area. It might not significantly increase attendance at either but could drive people to purchase season passes.


It'd probably be a good idea not to get any more involved in Galveston than they already are, things are a bit shady out there.

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Re: Cedar Fair Corporate Development Discussion Thread (FUN)

Postby jconsolmagno » Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:53 am

Coasterguy21 wrote:
larrygator wrote:I know it is unlikely to happen, but if Cedar Fair could obtain the rights to manage Moody Gardens (in Galveston) under a similar set-up as Gilroy Gardens that would make for a nice foothold in the area. It might not significantly increase attendance at either but could drive people to purchase season passes.


As far as the KC location goes, it will never be re-opened as a waterpark under CF. It will be solely a real estate flip for CP. The sports park idea will not work because that strategy relays on have hotel rooms to book for these participants which CF does not have in KC.


That's a good idea.

As for the KC waterpark, I wouldn't be so sure about that. They made it clear to the local newspapers that they feel it could create synergy with Worlds of Fun/Oceans of Fun. Of course, they're looking into it still, but did state if they bought it, they would open it under a different name that is not Schlitterbahn. Either way, even if it was just a flip, $6 million doesn't seem too bad as an option. But with them wanting to close before the end of the month, I'm not sure if they'll finish the "fact finding stage" in enough time. They'll retain the brand for the Texas parks (that could still change though), but they said KC would be rebranded if they bought it. EPR Properties, who owns the mortgage, expects it to be paid in full, no matter what!

verruckt1 wrote:Just curious, does anyone think it's possible that Cedar Fair will buy the KC Schlitterbahn and relocate all the watersides from there to Worlds of Fun since it's so close.


Possible, not not super likely! They could disperse the assets to many of the parks. However, when Geauga Lake's WildWater Kingdom closed, they scrapped everything. Some of the slides weren't even 10 years old. Slide relocation or not, the land the park sits on could be worth a pretty penny due to its location. It'll be interesting to see what options they pursue with it! They kept the option in for a reason. The Henry Family still plans to own the South Padre Island Schiltterbahn (but will have to rebrand due to Cedar Fair taking over the brand), so there is interest in the KC property for one reason or another.


They only scrapped the 7 Slide Complex that was from 2003. Is was for sale, but noone bought it.

The funnel slide and kids slides were relocated to different non-CF parks.

Usable parts from the lazy river and wave pool went to Waldameer.

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Re: Cedar Fair Corporate Development Discussion Thread (FUN)

Postby jedimaster1227 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:29 am

The acquisition of the New Braunfels and Galvestone Schlitterbahn water parks has completed and Cedar Fair now owns these two properties!

https://www.cedarfair.com/news/article/2019-71-schlitterbahn-acquisition

Cedar Fair Entertainment Company (NYSE: FUN), a leader in regional amusement parks, water parks and immersive entertainment, announced today it has completed the acquisition of two iconic water parks and one resort in Texas – Schlitterbahn Waterpark and Resort New Braunfels and Schlitterbahn Waterpark Galveston – for a cash purchase price of $261 million. The acquisition advances Cedar Fair’s strategy to increase its presence in growing and attractive markets, further diversifying its portfolio of parks and leveraging its management expertise.

“Starting today, Cedar Fair is officially Texas proud,” said President and CEO Richard Zimmerman. “The completion of this acquisition is great news, and we are extremely pleased to be adding to our portfolio of entertainment properties two of the nation’s most treasured and award-winning water parks. For the employees and guests of those parks, I want to extend a warm welcome to the Cedar Fair family.

“Our company, whose heritage at Cedar Point in Sandusky, Ohio, dates back to 1870, has a rich history of acquiring and investing in strong regional brands in attractive markets,” continued Zimmerman. “The quality of the Schlitterbahn brand and the offerings of these parks are consistent with that strategy. Our plans are to update and refresh areas of both parks, yet retain the valued hospitality and genuine spirit of the Schlitterbahn brand that guests have come to appreciate over the years.”

In 2018, the acquired properties entertained 1.2 million guests and generated annual revenues of approximately $68 million. Cedar Fair expects the two Texas locations to achieve Adjusted EBITDA margins in line with comparable Cedar Fair park-level results as management implements a number of growth and operational initiatives over the next two years, reflecting an accretive EBITDA multiple post synergies.

With completion of the transaction, Cedar Fair’s portfolio now consists of 11 amusement parks, four outdoor water parks, an indoor water park and resort accommodations totaling more than 2,000 rooms and more than 600 luxury RV sites. Combined, the 15 parks and resorts will entertain more than 27 million guests annually.

In conjunction with the closing of the Texas water parks acquisition, Cedar Fair recently completed the issuance of $500 million of 5.250% senior unsecured notes, due 2029. Cedar Fair used the net proceeds from the notes offering for the acquisition of the two Schlitterbahn water parks in Texas, the purchase of the land upon which California’s Great America amusement park is located, the payment of fees and expenses related to those transactions and the offering, repayment of a portion of the Company’s senior secured revolving credit facility and for general corporate purposes. Further details regarding terms of the notes offering were outlined in Cedar Fair’s Form 8-K filed on June 18, 2019, with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
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