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Re: Disneyland Resort (DL, DLR, DCA) Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:33 pm
by prospekt88
Jew wrote:The crowds and opening only one ride (smart IMO, wait until the other one is ready) will have zero impact on the brand. They’d gain absolutely nothing having a fully functioning land minus one ride doing nothing.

I’d also say that the 13th busiest park in the world is hardly struggling.


I didn't make any reference to opening only one ride. Of course they shouldn't have the entire land sitting vacant.

The fact that DCA is the 13th busiest park doesn't prove its success. Obviously different parks have different expectations. Every other US Disney park is in the top 10. Disneyland has twice the annual attendance as DCA.

^Good point about the Marvel expansion tho, that should hopefully help.

Re: Disneyland Resort (DL, DLR, DCA) Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:49 pm
by ytterbiumanalyst
prospekt88 wrote: Disneyland has twice the annual attendance as DCA.

DCA isn't competing against Disneyland, though. If that 2:1 figure is because everyone who was going to get a 2-day ticket to Disneyland is now getting a 3-day ticket and spending the additional day at DCA, I'd think they would be pretty happy about that.

Obviously I don't have granular data like that, but I think it's safe to say that no one is going to DCA and not to Disneyland. So the expectation should be that DCA will have a fraction of the attendance Disneyland does. The way to get that closer to parity is by pushing Park Hopper and Maxpass and thereby encouraging people to treat the two parks more like a single park.

Re: Disneyland Resort (DL, DLR, DCA) Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:46 am
by Jew
prospekt88 wrote:
Jew wrote:The crowds and opening only one ride (smart IMO, wait until the other one is ready) will have zero impact on the brand. They’d gain absolutely nothing having a fully functioning land minus one ride doing nothing.

I’d also say that the 13th busiest park in the world is hardly struggling.


I didn't make any reference to opening only one ride. Of course they shouldn't have the entire land sitting vacant.

The fact that DCA is the 13th busiest park doesn't prove its success. Obviously different parks have different expectations. Every other US Disney park is in the top 10. Disneyland has twice the annual attendance as DCA.

^Good point about the Marvel expansion tho, that should hopefully help.


From what I have been told (don't know if it is true), Disney only counts the first click of the day for accounting/reporting purposes. So anyone with a park hopper ticket/AP who enters Disneyland first, but still goes to DCA, will only get counted for Disneyland. I would guess that the majority of tickets are park hoppers or multi-day tickets (1 park/day) so the majority of their guests visit both parks.

DCA is definitely not struggling anymore.

Re: Disneyland Resort (DL, DLR, DCA) Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:51 am
by A.J.
prospekt88 wrote:The fact that DCA is the 13th busiest park doesn't prove its success. Obviously different parks have different expectations.

What, then, is the criteria for success?

Re: Disneyland Resort (DL, DLR, DCA) Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:57 am
by prospekt88
ytterbiumanalyst wrote:
prospekt88 wrote: Disneyland has twice the annual attendance as DCA.

DCA isn't competing against Disneyland, though. If that 2:1 figure is because everyone who was going to get a 2-day ticket to Disneyland is now getting a 3-day ticket and spending the additional day at DCA, I'd think they would be pretty happy about that.

Obviously I don't have granular data like that, but I think it's safe to say that no one is going to DCA and not to Disneyland. So the expectation should be that DCA will have a fraction of the attendance Disneyland does. The way to get that closer to parity is by pushing Park Hopper and Maxpass and thereby encouraging people to treat the two parks more like a single park.

They're not competing against each other of course. But some people do actually do what you've said and go to DCA and not Disneyland, but the number isn't too large because of the difference in quality and fame of the two parks. I've had a number of people come visit me out here that want to go to Disney for a day but are not spending $200 on a park hopper so they choose one park. Most have chosen Disneyland but there was one group who wanted to do DCA, and that was only because they were running a promotion.

From what I have been told (don't know if it is true), Disney only counts the first click of the day for accounting/reporting purposes. So anyone with a park hopper ticket/AP who enters Disneyland first, but still goes to DCA, will only get counted for Disneyland. I would guess that the majority of tickets are park hoppers or multi-day tickets (1 park/day) so the majority of their guests visit both parks.

DCA is definitely not struggling anymore.

That makes zero sense from an accounting or capacity planning point of view. The number you would get from measuring attendance like that would be pretty close to useless. But who knows.

What, then, is the criteria for success?

You would measure it up against other parks in the company, or at least parks with similar expenditures. The operating expenses at Disney parks are sky high compared to a local Six Flags. You can't just say since they are getting more people than another park that they are doing better financially. I think that's pretty fair to say, right?

I mean DCA had lower attendance than Hollywood Studios in 2017 for example, which is the most recent year with attendance info. With Toy Story Land in 2018 and Star Wars Land this year that gap is going to widen even more. The next lowest park among the US Disney parks is EPCOT, which has Ratatouille and GotG coming. DCA will be the lowest attended US Disney Park for the foreseeable future, and that's hard to explain because it's 100 yards from the second most popular park in the world. They can't be happy with that gap.

Re: Disneyland Resort (DL, DLR, DCA) Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:25 am
by Jew
That makes zero sense from an accounting or capacity planning point of view. The number you would get from measuring attendance like that would be pretty close to useless. But who knows.


No, it makes perfect sense. Keeping track of how many guests are in your park at a given time and how you account for them on a financial basis are two totally different things. It would be a monumental task to split the cost of an annual pass/park hopper ticket on a balance sheet if you did it by individual clicks.

DCA will be the lowest attended US Disney Park for the foreseeable future, and that's hard to explain because it's 100 yards from the second most popular park in the world. They can't be happy with that gap.


They are laughing at this statement all the way to the bank. The whole point of DCA was to keep people on Disney property longer. They can't charge $1,400 for a Signature Plus AP without DCA. They're not selling 5 day tickets without DCA. They're not filling 3 hotels at insane prices without DCA.

DCA was a failure prior to carsland, because it rightfully had a poor reputation and was value engineered from its intended design. It's not an accident attendance jumped by 1.5 million when Carsland opened and has been growing ever since. People now actually want to go there, which means Disney can keep a captive audience longer than before.

Re: Disneyland Resort (DL, DLR, DCA) Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:31 pm
by ytterbiumanalyst
prospekt88 wrote:
ytterbiumanalyst wrote:
prospekt88 wrote: Disneyland has twice the annual attendance as DCA.

DCA isn't competing against Disneyland, though. If that 2:1 figure is because everyone who was going to get a 2-day ticket to Disneyland is now getting a 3-day ticket and spending the additional day at DCA, I'd think they would be pretty happy about that.

Obviously I don't have granular data like that, but I think it's safe to say that no one is going to DCA and not to Disneyland. So the expectation should be that DCA will have a fraction of the attendance Disneyland does. The way to get that closer to parity is by pushing Park Hopper and Maxpass and thereby encouraging people to treat the two parks more like a single park.

They're not competing against each other of course. But some people do actually do what you've said and go to DCA and not Disneyland, but the number isn't too large because of the difference in quality and fame of the two parks. I've had a number of people come visit me out here that want to go to Disney for a day but are not spending $200 on a park hopper so they choose one park. Most have chosen Disneyland but there was one group who wanted to do DCA, and that was only because they were running a promotion.

Oh man, anecdotal evidence? Wow, if I had known you were gonna bring the big guns....

Re: Disneyland Resort (DL, DLR, DCA) Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:16 pm
by FeelTheFORCE
If everyone in your party purchases MaxPass, are you able to manage & redeem all of the FastPasses from one phone?

Re: Disneyland Resort (DL, DLR, DCA) Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:54 pm
by ytterbiumanalyst
Yes. You'll create a Fastpass Group in the Disneyland app and you can manage everyone's Fastpasses at once.

Re: Disneyland Resort (DL, DLR, DCA) Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:35 pm
by prospekt88
ytterbiumanalyst wrote:Oh man, anecdotal evidence? Wow, if I had known you were gonna bring the big guns....


When you say something like "I don't have any data but I doubt anyone is only going to DCA..." what the hell are you expecting someone to come back with except for anecdotal evidence haha.

They are laughing at this statement all the way to the bank. The whole point of DCA was to keep people on Disney property longer. They can't charge $1,400 for a Signature Plus AP without DCA. They're not selling 5 day tickets without DCA. They're not filling 3 hotels at insane prices without DCA.

DCA was a failure prior to carsland, because it rightfully had a poor reputation and was value engineered from its intended design. It's not an accident attendance jumped by 1.5 million when Carsland opened and has been growing ever since. People now actually want to go there, which means Disney can keep a captive audience longer than before.


That's a really good point in terms of multi day tickets, hotels, and increased AP prices. And Carsland was a huge success no denying that. But nothing else has been. The Little Mermaid and Paradise Pier particularly, but even GotG. Attendance has not been growing every year since Carsland that just isn't true. It has been completely stagnant for 3 years now from 2015-2017, and there's no good reason to believe 2018 was better when the only changes made was turning the entire Paradise Pier and Bugsland into a construction site.