Waldameer Discussion Thread

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Re: Waldameer Discussion Thread

Postby ajfelice » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:33 pm

Two trains and Ravine Flyer II is a tough subject for myself because I love to see this thing busy and cranking out riders. Both trains are operated on a rotating basis, and heve been doing this since opening day. Starting with late-June Saturdays, and several Sundays until the end of the season, you will see two-train operation on Ravine Flyer II. We all must remember that Waldameer is small and doesn't pull in large park crowds on most weekdays, so one train operation is all that is necessary. It is amazing what that second train does to a line that reaches the bottom of the station ramps; it kills it. Next thing you know, we are stuck with empty seats. With empty seats, we are required to buckle the seatbelts over the lap bars. Doing this takes time, and the result is that we become counter productive in terms of efficiency in which the other train sits on the brake run for a much longer time than necessary. Also, for icing on the cake, most of the work on the trains is performed by exactly ONE mechanic, and having two trains to work on every day is a lot of work. He does an exceptional job and takes it very seriously, but he is also the mechanic responsible for four other rides in the park! That is a small park budget for you.

Also, a guest service issue I took upon myself to address is our closing procedure for RFII. As many of you have experienced we do close the line early based on its length. Previously, we judged it and closed the line with no prior notice to our guests. Bummer, I know, I understand. This early closing policy isn't changing any time soon as we only have the resources for operators who put in 12 hours each day, and mechanics who put in close to 15 hours. To curb some of the dissatisfaction, I got some of the management team together and we decided on an announced closing time. You will see me sitting on the benches monitoring the line after 9:00. Then I will radio management the expected closing time for them to annouce. If the announced closing time ends up being too early, I leave the line open until necessary. If the annouced closing is too late in which the ride will operate some time past ten, oh well for us and we stay a little late. This has cut the complaints drastically.

P.S. I will be at the coaster for the TPR event coming up soon.

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Re: Waldameer Discussion Thread

Postby Myself » Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:42 pm

Wow! Great to hear all the info about what's going on at Waldameer! One thing though, where do they put the second L. Ruth Express train when only one is used? I'd imagine they added a storage track somewhere, and have been curious as to where it might be since the tunnel can only store one.

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Re: Waldameer Discussion Thread

Postby CoasterLine » Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:14 pm

AJ, why are they moving Scrambler, rather than placing the Music Express in the Hoop Shot location? I would think the Music Express would have a smaller footprint than the Scrambler does (especially with the spacing/gap between ride rotation and the outside fences). Is this to open up more of the midway for better traffic flow? I have noticed that the small space between the Scrambler fence and the Dodgems to be kind of a jam sometimes on busy days.

Any words on the restaurant/eating area planned for the old merry-go-round pavilion? I know that it has been discussed for a while now... just curious.
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Re: Waldameer Discussion Thread

Postby GayCoasterGuy » Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:36 am

ajfelice wrote:Next thing you know, we are stuck with empty seats. With empty seats, we are required to buckle the seatbelts over the lap bars. Doing this takes time, and the result is that we become counter productive in terms of efficiency in which the other train sits on

Is it an option to rope off one car - say car 3 or 4? This would alleviate having to do all those restraints, but keep the capacity above that of a single train. Cedar Point used to do this quite frequently with Gemini and Mine Ride. Not sure how they run stuff now.

Thanks for your input and updates on Waldameer - the inside information is very good to hear. I keep missing Waldameer for various reasons, but hope to get there this fall :D

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Re: Waldameer Discussion Thread

Postby Perilous Chris » Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:20 am


I just wanted to say that I visited Waldameer in 2010, and I really had a great time in the two hours I was there. The efficiency and customer service was great. I appreciate your posts keeping people updated.

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Re: Waldameer Discussion Thread

Postby beatle11 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:06 pm

Also, we moved the wristband/Wally Card scanner further back into the queue, so that guests are scanned and ready to board well before the train is ready. Efficiency has been dramatically increased.

This was a huge issue when I visited on a Saturday about a month ago. I'm glad that has been rectified. Also glad to hear about the two train operation on Comet and L. Ruth Express. Ravine Flyer II was also running with one train and Steel Dragon with only 3 cars. Is this normal procedure, or were there some other issues that day?

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Re: Waldameer Discussion Thread

Postby OISU8P » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:26 pm

Made my yearly travel from Phoenix to the Presque Isle \ Erie area this past weekend. I made it a long weekend and got there Friday evening and left Monday morning. I usually stay there for a little over the week. However, due to work load in Pittsburgh the previous week and needing to be back I needed to shorten this years trip.

I stayed in my usual spot at The Inn At Presque Isle Cottages. I downgraded this year from a B style to a D style though. Only my 6 year old was back with me and I did not need all the space and she spent a couple of nights in my parents camper anyways. I would really recommend this place to anyone going to be there few days. If you can rough it without TV or AC the cottages are great. If you can not then the Inn is also very good. I however borrow and TV and DVD player from my parents and take it with me. I may purchase a cheap wall AC unit for next year though to take. Either way, both are in walking distance of Waldameer without needing to cross a road.

Waldameer was fun as usually. Sat was extremely packed and had at least a 15 minute wait for the lazy river. Sun was had a large rain storm in the morning and kept the crowds down. I did not get to do any slides this year since I could not fit them in and Sat was to packed. Sun was to cool for my Arizona A$$ so I did not bother going in the water park. My daughter and I hit everything but X-Scream, RF 2, Sky Ride and Wipeout. She ended up doing Steel Dragon this year for the first time and loved it. Her new favorite ride is The Comet.

Whacky Shack was pretty much the same as last year with the addition of the dual loading line. This was not being used most likely due to what AJ pointed out earlier. I really hope they paint more stunts like the spiders and the skull waterfall in the next year or so. The new painted one from last year look good.

Pirates Cove is looking good inside with some of its stunts repainted. I see they also added back the chests with hands coming out in the draw bridge scene. As with Whacky Shack, I hope they refurb some more stunts in the suture. My daughter did her usual 30 times threw with no line as always.

The Comet was only running one train and the ride opp mentioned it will not be ready for two train opp until next year.

I got to meet Mr Nelson for the first time. He talked with me for about five minutes and was really nice. He seems really excited about putting in the Music Express and fixing up the whole area. I saw him the next day staring at the basketball game. He went over to some game folks and was talking to them. As he walked away they said back to him they are not attached to it anyways while laughing. I guess this sealed its future... I asked him about the wave pool and he said it is still in planning and really wants to add it. He mentioned he wants it very large because of a friend he had who owned another park and tripled the size after adding a wave pool from its success. I was not sure what park he was talking about though. I could have probably sat there and talked with him for an hour, but I did not want to take to much of his time up.

Well, it was a great trip and I am looking forward to next year. Maybe I will ask Mr Nelson next year about the beach property and plans for that.

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Re: Waldameer Discussion Thread

Postby gisco » Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:46 am

Went to the park for the first time a few weeks ago with TPR. Nice park and had a great time. Not the biggest fan of wooden coasters any more but like RFII was good. Loved the whole family atmosphere of the park.

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Re: Waldameer Discussion Thread

Postby jedimaster1227 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:41 pm


Two days after Waldameer Park & Water World ended its 2012 season, workers began disassembling one of its signature rides. The venerable Scrambler is being moved closer to the park's train station to make way for a new $1.5 million mega-ride. The caterpillar-style Music Express will rattle up to 60 passengers at a time beginning in spring. It should help the lakefront park continue to ride high after what looks to be its third consecutive record season.

"We want to keep growing," park owner Paul Nelson said.

Hot, dry weather this summer helped the Millcreek Township amusement and water park. "Each day we were open this year was better than that same day last year," Nelson said.

The jury is still out on whether 2012 was a record season, only because the park was open four fewer days -- 90 compared with 94 in 2011 -- between its Mother's Day opening and Labor Day closing. "Even so, we may have done better than last year," Nelson said. "We won't know until next week when we look at receipts, and it's going to be close one way or the other. But I think we're going to beat it."

Not in doubt is a record for season-pass sales. Passes sold out in mid-May, compared with June 15 in 2011 and June 30 in 2010. And that's with a few thousand more passes available this year. "The passes are a good value for families, and they sold very quickly," Nelson said. Passes this season were priced at $58.50 for children, $75 for adults.

Park draws, in addition to the weather this summer, were shorter waits for two of its most popular rides: the Comet roller coaster and the L. Ruth Express train. The park added a second car to the Comet and added a second train, the L. Ruth Express II, to accommodate large weekend and holiday crowds. "It worked out well," Nelson said of the changes. "It kept the lines down and kept things moving."

Coming attractions

The new Music Express ride is being built in Italy and is expected to arrive at Waldameer in December. Twenty three-seat cars will go up and down, forward and backward -- fast -- accompanied by music and lights. "It's one of those rides that makes your tummy go," Nelson said. "Kids love it."

Nearby landscaping, including a fountain and gardens, will debut along with the ride in spring.

Extended plans include replacing the Merry-Go-Round Grove pavilion with an open, Florida-style restaurant. "That won't happen next year," Nelson said.

In the meantime, the park's Ferris wheel, like the Scrambler, will be disassembled in fall. It's being shipped to Kansas for a safety inspection and upgrades. Total cost: $350,000 to $450,000. "It's over 10 years old. Its hub and parts have to be checked out. It's also getting a program that will balance its weight. If it's not loaded evenly from one side to the other, the program will signal that you can't load it that way," Nelson said. The Ferris wheel will be reassembled in time for the park's 2013 opening in May.

Nelson, 78, takes pride in the park that's employed him since he was 11, and now employs his grandchildren. "I fell in love with the park my very first year here," Nelson said, "and I'm still at it. I plan things out ahead for it to grow and get even better."
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Re: Waldameer Discussion Thread

Postby ajfelice » Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:28 pm


Waldameer Park & Water World, which introduces a new attraction nearly every year, is adding something just as big this fall: more than 7 acres of land and buildings, including the Inn at Presque Isle, at Peninsula Drive and West Sixth Street. The acquisition, to be final Oct. 2, will enlarge Waldameer to 52 acres, put park owner Paul Nelson in the hotel business and help launch an ambitious 10-year plan for the 116-year-old amusement park in Millcreek Township.

The plan, to cost more than $20 million, will feature a large wave pool, to open most likely in 2014, and the development, most likely five years later, of a secluded wooded area involving about 5 acres that Nelson's family owns at the foot of a slope that overlooks Lake Erie.

The highlight of that long-awaited project, Nelson said, will be an incline railway to carry picnickers from the main park to the lakefront hideaway.

"We are talking about radically changing the park," said Nelson, 78, who started working at Waldameer when he was 11.

The purchase of the property will expand Waldameer's footprint from Lake Erie to the northwest to West Sixth Street to the southeast.

In addition to acquiring the 3.9-acre, 58-room Inn at Presque Isle -- formerly known as the Beachcomber Inn and Scott's Motel -- Waldameer is buying a 0.7-acre mobile-home park just east of the inn and, adjacent to the mobile-home park, a 2.7-acre cluster of rental cottages known as the Cottages at Presque Isle.

The seller of all the properties, Nelson said, is the estate of Richard L. Carrara, 76, an Erie businessman who died in April. Carrara, who also owned Erie-based Amthor Steel, bought the Inn at Presque Isle in the 1990s and the Cottages at Presque Isle and the mobile-home park in 2006.

Nelson declined to comment on the price of the three properties. "More money than I have," he said with a laugh.

An executor of Carrara's estate, Joseph Sadler, an Erie accountant, could not be reached for comment.

A desire for space

Nelson said Waldameer will start demolishing all the cottages shortly after Oct. 2 to make more room for parking. He said the park will give the tenants of the mobile homes six-month leases while he decides what to do with that property.

Waldameer will need more parking, Nelson said, to accommodate construction of the wave pool in what is now part of the Peninsula Drive parking lot next to Water World. Waldameer plans to build a children's water play area near the wave pool, which Nelson said will be the largest of its kind "in the tri-state area."

The land purchases "are a great opportunity to continue the growth of the park," said Steve Gorman, 52, Waldameer's president and Nelson's son-in-law.

Nelson said he had long wanted to buy the Inn at Presque Isle and the adjoining properties to ensure that Waldameer -- the 10th-oldest amusement park in the United States, with 75 rides and attractions -- can grow. "This is enough to keep us going for the next 10 years," Nelson said.

He said he wants to draw more visitors from Ohio and New York, and to capitalize on recent changes that have boosted the park's attendance, such as the introduction of season passes in 2010. Even before the wave pool opens in 2014, Waldameer will introduce a new ride in 2013 -- the $1.5 million caterpillar-style Music Express -- as well as fountains and gardens, with plans to one day turn the park's large Merry-Go-Round Grove picnic shelter into an outdoor restaurant.

By the time the current 10-year-plan is over, Nelson said, Waldameer's capacity will be about 50 percent higher than it is today, and its seasonal employment of about 400 people could grow by as many as 200.

Asked why he is launching a long-term plan at an age when most people have retired, Nelson smiled. "I like what I'm doing," he said. "It is having good faith in the community."

Aiming for 'repeat visitation'

The new plan for Waldameer is rooted in a tough decision Nelson made 28 years ago. After briefly considering retirement, he rededicated himself to Waldameer and sold the park's original carousel, including its hand-carved wooden horses, for $1.2 million.

Nelson used the money to build Water World in the 1980s, which generated the revenue that soon allowed him to add a new attraction nearly every year. Among the most-heralded rides was the Ravine Flyer II, the roller coaster that gained national attention when it opened in 2008 and sent riders screaming across a bridge over Peninsula Drive.

The Ravine Flyer II, which cost $7.5 million, was the centerpiece of Waldameer's most recent 10-year plan, which cost $15 million.

Waldameer has thrived as one of a dwindling number of family-owned amusement parks by adding new rides on a "cyclical investment schedule" to keep customers returning each year, said Dennis Speigel, president of International Theme Park Services Inc., a Cincinnati-based management and consulting firm. "Our industry lives on repeat visitation," Speigel said. "You add a new ride to get people back." "He is on the right track. He is doing the right things," Speigel said of Nelson. "They could have just as easily gone out of business."

A promise to grow

As he steers the park through its expansion, Nelson is venturing into a new business -- lodging. He said Waldameer will update the Inn at Presque Isle as needed, and market the motel to vacationing families who are visiting not only Waldameer but Presque Isle State Park, down the road on Peninsula Drive, and other local attractions, such as Splash Lagoon in Summit Township, which is owned by Erie developer Nick Scott Sr.

Nelson said he is willing to experiment on the Inn at Presque Isle. "If I can't make the same return ... (as the amusement park), then the hotel will go," he said.

On the other side of Waldameer, on the lakefront property, Nelson said he sees more ways to increase attendance at Waldameer and the Inn at Presque Isle. The verdant parcel -- squeezed between Sara's Campground and the private cottages of Kelso Beach -- will be home to, among other attractions, the incline railway, another water ride, a family ride, a restaurant and a picnic area, Nelson said. The approximately 5-acre property includes a beach, but Nelson said swimming probably won't be an option -- he doesn't want the lake to compete with Water World.

Nelson's voice jumped with excitement as he discussed the lakefront property -- how Waldameer operated a swimming pool, trolley and other attractions there until a storm destroyed them in the early 1930s, and how the development will help fulfill his vision for the park. "Most people don't realize we own this land," he said. "There is much more to our long-range plan than meets the eye." Nelson is insistent the patch of property will one day bustle with visitors. Just as he built Water World and the Ravine Flyer II, just as he will buy the Inn at Presque Isle, Nelson said he will finish the latest 10-year plan. "We are not like someone from out of town who says they are going to do something," he said. "Most of our stuff turns out to be pretty much true."

This is a BIG story for a small park that is growing a lot faster than we realize. Some main points include the following:

Major land acquisition.

Wave pool and children's play area as soon as 2014.

Lakefront property expansion to include at least another water ride, inclined railway, and a family ride.
Last edited by ajfelice on Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:31 pm.


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