Six Flags St. Louis (SFStL) Discussion Thread

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Re: Six Flags St. Louis (SFStL) Discussion Thread

Postby netdvn » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:34 pm

SteveStL wrote:Yes and No... back then SF did way too much, way too fast. They crammed 10 years of park growth into just a few years which is not a solid business strategy. I believe in the theory 'if you build it, they will come'. Why do people drive far distances to go to places like Cedar Point, King's Island, etc? because they have awesome coasters. And by the way all that coaster building that went down then in the late 90's - 2000's... well SFSTL again got the short end of the stick. We got The Boss and were screwed out of a Hyper which ended up in Altanta. You all may debate me on these opinions but I think that's pretty close to the truth. A used Boomerang will not bring attendance up... A massive B&M steel giant would.


People drive long distances to CP because of its coasters, yes, but CP is also CF's big flagship park so of course CF is gonna invest capital in said park. Same with parks like Kings Island, Kings Dominion, Knotts, etc. If you compare the additions of the flagship parks like Worlds of Fun, CGA, and Valleyfair, notice the smaller parks don't get as many major investments.

And if you really think Mid-America got screwed, let's take a look at SFA, which received their last brand new coaster in 2001 and got a 20 year old B&M to make up for it. They added a few new water slides between that time period, but removed a couple flats and a coaster in between. CGA was in a similar state, except a few of their coasters were removed and a few smaller flats added between their last coaster in 2001 (which was a wild mouse) and 2013 (Gold Strike).

Raging Bull ended up in Illinois. Then again, Great America is the most profitable park in the chain, so it makes a bit of sense.

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Re: Six Flags St. Louis (SFStL) Discussion Thread

Postby SFZIP » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:04 pm

Flashback won't be shipped to St. Louis until early February and the ride (along with almost all of Six Flags new 2013 additions) will not open until at least Memorial day weekend, this is sort of a Six Flags corporate policy to generate more interest about the rides and to force season pass holders to make an extra trip if they want to ride the new rides.

All this debate about weather or not this park deserves a large ride or not does not make a lot of since if you look into the past. SFSL has only got 2 million in attendance three times in the parks history (all were when large additions were added) - Screamin' Eagle (1976), Batman (1995) and Hurricane Harbor (1999). Currently, if you live in the middle of Illinois what reason would you choose to go to SFSL over driving to Holiday World or even to SFGAm. and if you live in the middle of Missouri why wouldn't you go to Silver Dollar City or Worlds Of Fun?

I'm not convinced that the park necessarily needs a super huge ride, the park really could use about 3 flat rides, a kids only roller coaster is needed (it's the only Six Flags park without one), building anything unique to the area would likely generate more interest the the Boomerang will or already has.

I believe that this is the only one of the 10 Six Flags branded U.S. parks that doesn't have at least one roller coaster that cost at least $15 million to install (the highest ever spent on one addition was Hurricane Harbor at $20 million). Back in the 90's this was the only park to not get a Batman Stunt Show (I know Astroworld only got a water stunt show), but instead this park got the much cheaper Robin Hood Stunt Show.

I think that the Boomerang will be the oldest ride ever moved within the Six Flags system in the 50+ years it's been around (the only ride I can find that was older was when Greezed Lightnin' when it was moved to SFKK, but the ride was in pieces for 3 years between it's move from SFGAm. to SFOG and for a year between it's move from SFOG to SFKK), so i guess you can debate if it's older or not.

This park has now basically now fallen to a level that is basically even with Six Flags America (it shows in the amount that has been spent on new capital in the three years since the new management has taken over). I like to group Six Flags into a 3-2-3-2-3 class of parks. The big three are SFGAm., SFGAdv. & SFMM; then - SFOT & SFOG; then - SFNE, SFFT & SFDK; then - SFSL & SFA; then the "others" - SFM, La Ronde and The Great Escape.

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Re: Six Flags St. Louis (SFStL) Discussion Thread

Postby ArizonaGuy » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:55 pm

^^
Funny that SFFT hasn't been following that "sort of" Six Flags corporate policy since Goliath opened 04/18/2008 and Pandemonium opened 03/10/2007. I understand that Sky Screamer opened Memorial Day weekend 2012 at SFFT but the other two attractions were a lot bigger. And SFoT opened NTAG in April didn't they??? I'm sure there are a lot of factors why many of Six Flags attractions open Memorial Day weekend, however I don't think a "sort of" Six Flags policy is one of them. Just saying....
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Re: Six Flags St. Louis (SFStL) Discussion Thread

Postby SFZIP » Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:20 pm

ArizonaGuy wrote:^^
Funny that SFFT hasn't been following that "sort of" Six Flags corporate policy since Goliath opened 04/18/2008 and Pandemonium opened 03/10/2007. I understand that Sky Screamer opened Memorial Day weekend 2012 at SFFT but the other two attractions were a lot bigger. And SFoT opened NTAG in April didn't they??? I'm sure there are a lot of factors why many of Six Flags attractions open Memorial Day weekend, however I don't think a "sort of" Six Flags policy is one of them. Just saying....


I'm talking about Six Flags current management (2011, 2012 and 2013 additions), not the former management of Shapiro who wanted the new additions to be open on opening day. I'm not going to look them all up, but how many SF new additions opened before Memorial Day weekend in 2011 or 2012 (the answer is not very many) and some didn't even open until June, things won't change this year so don't go on opening day and expect to find the new ride open.

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Re: Six Flags St. Louis (SFStL) Discussion Thread

Postby acq10uaz » Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:04 am

^That's not true. I can't think of any Shapiro attraction that opened for opening day. They all opened Memorial Day weekend. Even the Bizarro transformations, which was essentially just a paint job and some added theming. Same can be said for X2, which IIRC, didn't open until June. Most of the new Thomas Towns opened in June.

With new management, GCG at SFNE opened with the park, X-Flight opened the weekend after opening, New Texas Giant opened in April, etc etc. I'm not going to get into the argument, but Six Flags finds that opening new attractions later in the Spring is better for attendance. They get people out to the park in the Spring and tease them with the new attraction.

In fact, this corporate policy was actually put into place by Shapiro. Obviously it is working because it makes the guest who came with a general admission ticket upgrade to a season pass so they can return at a later date. Six Flags could open everything up for each parks opening day. They just don't want to. The only people who complain are enthusiasts... If new management found that this strategy didn't work, they would've changed it. Look how many policies were changed under Al Weber and Jim Reid-Anderson.

Anyways, this will SURELY piss you off. Boomerang clearly isn't a priority, which I get.While it may sound like I was defending Six Flags above, a June opening for Boomerang is upsetting. I mentioned how GCG opened with SFNE in 2011, SFStL could've been able to open the small coaster for opening day. Or at least a few weeks after opening like SFGAm and SFOT.

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Re: Six Flags St. Louis (SFStL) Discussion Thread

Postby vacoaster09 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:21 am

You must remember that for GCG, the foundation was pre-built in 2008 for TDKC and thus SFNE did not have to do any significant foundation prep-work. SFSTL has had to excavate. While not, trying to justify a june opening .... I think Gatekeeper would be a much better example in this case than a cross comparison to SFNE. Even with that example, CP started deconstruction earlier. However, fret not, I'm sure Boomerang will be open before YOLOcoaster.
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Re: Six Flags St. Louis (SFStL) Discussion Thread

Postby prozach626 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:16 am

What's done is done. I'll say the same thing I've said since after Mr. Freeze opened: "Better luck next year". (on a good steel coaster coming to us)

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Re: Six Flags St. Louis (SFStL) Discussion Thread

Postby SteveStL » Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:47 am

prozach626 wrote:What's done is done. I'll say the same thing I've said since after Mr. Freeze opened: "Better luck next year". (on a good steel coaster coming to us)


I think our best bet is getting the Iron Horse treatment for the Boss... I have lost all hope on any custom steel coaster being built for our park - hyper or otherwise. Maybe getting Medusa is still an viable option too... to replace Ninja.

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Re: Six Flags St. Louis (SFStL) Discussion Thread

Postby prozach626 » Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:53 pm

I'd be pretty excited to get the Iron Horse Treatment on the Boss.

On a side note, I take it SFSTL is dead?

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Re: Six Flags St. Louis (SFStL) Discussion Thread

Postby SFZIP » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:19 pm

^ I think that it got hacked and since nobody was really running it, it's likely done for good.

While fixing The Boss (cutting down maintenance costs) is a possibility, what point would there be when SDC is already getting the same thing this year?, it would make about as much sense as adding the same roller coasters that WOF already has (which this park has done twice recently).

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