budtbum

Tricks and treats does say "family-friendly fall daytime event"- maybe Scare is coming back, if that is a homage to the old sign when things "changed". It was a big money maker at one time. Who knows with the merger with Six Flags, what influence that made too...

Unless there is something else, the only thing I see is they officially announced Tricks and Treats for this year... Short lines for the fall rides.

I was just there- nothing is happening at Snoopy Junction. Track, Station and sign are gone. Just the comic poster of Snoopy wondering if all that sand is necessary. Which has more of an ironic twist now.

I'd say you could do it in a day. Especially if you're mainly interested in the coasters. If you spend a lot of time in the water park it would make it harder to get all the other rides in. But it's doable. Especially if you're there the full day- 10am to 10pm. You probably won't see "everything" in the park , but would be satisfied.

Actually with the completion of Flying Cloud airport expansion, Valleyfair is now clear to build up to 310' anywhere in the park. 320' in some areas. Renegade is over a concrete platform, and they can drive footings like they did for Power Tower, which is extra expense. They just shouldn't go cheap like with Excalibur, as that seems to have caused settling issues. There isn't much else that is physically preventing building. They have even been cleared to build dikes when they were talking water park expansion. I think they may get more bang with a dry ride given the longer operating time per year. But the MOA water park design is known now too, so they could do some things different at VF. They would have to weigh what area has the longest lines and most customers.

They can play revenue games; If there is a larger crowd, there are more Fast Lane sales. At what point do people pay, or walk away and how many? I happened to be driving by Valleyfair Saturday morning at about 10:30am. They had at least a half mile long line- stop and go line of cars- to get into the park. I don't hardly ever go by on Saturdays, so I'm not familiar on the line size they normally get then in the mornings. But I haven't seen lines like that since the Haunt last year. Could be a draw from the monster trucks opening weekend, and/or because it's getting into the last few weeks of warm weather on a Saturday. I don't really know. But I do know several people/families that are starting to do things like go to Lost Island. Their water park is at least as good as Valleyfair's and in some ways better. Now that they are adding dry rides- a couple decent coasters and such, it's becoming even more of a park. People can get up at 7, get there and into the park by 11, easy. Spend the day, and be back home by 10pm. Yes it's a few hours in the car, but less waiting time in the park. (it's a relatively pleasant drive too) And here's the kicker- Since Valleyfair is the only major park in the metro area, many kids are there in the spring on a school trip already. Go again with the family? That's for the crowd who's more budget conscious. The ones with more money are wondering if they want to spend it for a Fast Lane at Valleyfair or go to a larger park. Valleyfair is like, "we wore out the Looping Starship and replaced it with Delirious..." I think the Monster Trucks is a great event- As long as they are getting enough people and Fast Lane sales, and a possible $40 a head for the Trucks, they don't have to make major investments like they did in the early 2000's. But at a lack of investment eventually builds up their own competition too.

I get what your saying, and largely agree- especially the statement "it's not CF's standard procedure to make major investment at parks that are doing just fine financially regardless of competition." I also understand that the websites have a standard design theme too that includes places to stay. But I will say that Minnesota and Valleyfair is a different market as well. For example the "amusement park mecca" is supported because it's also close to major population centers. Washington D.C, New York etc. Even Philadelphia alone is nearly 150% the size of the entire Twin Cities metro area that VF serves. Valleyfair is a different smaller market, in a much larger geographical area. Maybe they don't have to make the investment. I know many are willing to drive some extra here. Why? Because we have to... Otherwise it's a 400 mile drive to Six Flags. I know it sounds weird to people in Chicago, or bigger cities- States like Texas with larger meto areas that have more major parks close by to choose from. But if you're in Minnesota, and you don't easily have the ability to fly or drive across the country (which many people don't), then VF looks a bit different. So do the other smaller parks nipping at their heals (often with the water parks). More so, if you're in an outer area like Rochester. VF is big in comparison to the 250 mile radius now, but as the smaller parks grow, and VF doesn't... Just because it's a successful corporation doesn't mean they don't miss the boat too, so to speak. I think quite often they are doing exactly what you say- skip the investment and take a steady profit- even if it's a smaller one. Some of this is speculation. It's not like CF has the home address of all their guests to prove it. Just a name and a credit card number. So it's difficult to know for sure how far their guests are really coming from.

I was at Valleyfair this afternoon, and the Monster Trucks are going into the old Dino area that used to be the old Antique Auto area. Most of the trees are still there- even the dead Ash trees are still up. They look to be roughly following the same path as has always been there. But I disagree that parks a few hours away are not in competition. Look at Valleyfair's website- what do they advertise as one of the top four links? Places to stay- Hotels. Who remembers the Valleyfair campground that was barely advertised? Did they just throw away that business, or outgrow it to hotels only? (before you laugh, keep in mind Brambilas is across the street) Parks a few hours away may not be in "direct" competition- meaning the people who show up for the day. But they are in competition with the crowd willing to stay overnight. A drive and a nights hotel room is within reason when you figure in ticket prices etc. Sure VF might be old hat to the locals, but if you live in say Rochester? (It is 25% the population size of the enitre Twin Cities.) Anyplace within 250 miles is realistically in play. Not to the same degree- school trips in the spring aren't going to make the long drive. But the once a year weekend family trip that includes a day at VF might. That's what Valleyfair should stay on top of. Being the bigger better place that's worth making at least a few hours trip for.

Is the Dino area where they are running the monster trucks? But even if it's years from now, that location is prime area for a new ride, eventually. If they did put in a coaster there, I hope they keep the trees to fly by. Or have they clear cut the whole area?

I Agree- if that is the case. Valleyfair literally sold out- they were turning people away! (regular ticket sales AND season pass holders had limited spots) So if they had that kind of demand, and lost money, it actually makes my initial point. It's NOT business thinking! Yet the business, threw it away. I enjoy the shows, I enjoy the rides. Call me an enthusiast or businessman, and my basic answer is the same. More ticket sales should equal more rides and/or shows. It's an interesting question though- what draws in more people. The rides or the shows, and which ones? Then take it a step further- which do they come back additional times for, to get the repeat sales?

Very true. But popular also means ticket sales- their main revenue source. If they somehow figured out how to lose money with the size of crowds they were bringing in, that's a special kind of business sense. You can totally count me as the unwashed ignorant, in that particular case.

You do realize the "business thinking" just threw away their most popular event, right? I'm excited to check out the coasters they are building at Lost Island- they look fun, and only a few hours away....the business totally needs to think about this stuff! Valleyfair's water park isn't bad at all, it's just small and that can make for long lines. Though it is excellent given it's included with the regular ticket price, not a separate park. But Valleyfair can't afford to lose Excalibur without a substantial replacement/investment of some kind. Otherwise reducing the dry park size is simply a poor look- when it comes to inviting customers to buy a ticket for the day.

Maybe some corporate decision was made about what they want their "brand" to be. Nothing else makes much sense for why they would stop the biggest show of the year. But even that is a stretch since all day Sunday and Saturday morning and afternoons were still little kid friendly. They are talking Friday and Saturday nights only, and only after the regular summer season is over- No water park etc. open... It will be interesting to see what the corporate board decides after they see the revenue numbers at the end of the year.

I'm thinking about the potential loss of huge crowds. That's a possible loss of huge revenue- and that's an extended timeline to a new ride. I'm also reacting to the loss of what was a good space for teenagers. Sometimes it seems like they don't want to be, but they are part of the family too. VF was one of the better places for them to go to. Haunted houses was a big part of the attraction. I doubt it, but I could be wrong and there's an untapped market of families who want to take their younger kids out on a Friday night after work, and they will make more money than before. For some I'm sure there is a gain to having a place for younger kids at night. Some of the shows at Haunt were a great place that was a medium thing for 10 year old's. (And they could wear no scare lights) Sinister Circus was a great "family" show for example. With no need to leave as the night wears on and teenagers crowd in. Will teenagers/young adults continue to show up in such large numbers for Treats, or large numbers of families to replace them? I guess we'll find out. It's interesting that the new tricks and treats is no longer prominently displayed on the VF webpage- though that might be a marketing issue. Corporate is probably not changing their minds.

Does anyone know how the Halloween Haunts did at other Cedar Fair parks? I thought they had a balanced approach- kid friendly Sundays and Saturday afternoons. Friday and Saturday nights more scary. Family could decide if they want to stay or not into the evening. VF had sold out crowds last year, and huge crowds the years before- hard to beat that... Just wondering how much the change is with VF and how much is CF corporate. Sometimes a one size fits all is not the best move... though the change might fit some parks in the chain really well. I don't know. Not that they would ever announce it if one park or another disagreed. Just seems dumb to throw away a sell out performance, which makes me wonder if other parks didn't do so well. Or maybe they were concerned about security etc.