The Six Flags Magic Mountain (SFMM) Discussion Thread

WARNING! Engineering post incoming!

For a basic approximation of the speed of a roller coaster at the bottom of a drop, the energy equation can be used. In it's basic form, the equation is PE + KEt = KEb, where PE represents the potential energy at the top of the hill, KEt represents the kinetic energy at the top of the hill, and KEb represents the kinetic energy at the bottom of the drop. Since PE = mgh and KE = (1/2)mV^2, the equation can be represented as:

mgh + (1/2)mVt^2 = (1/2)mVb^2

m = mass of the train

g = acceleration due to gravity (32.2 ft/s^2)

h = height of the hill

Vt = speed at top of the hill

Vb = speed at bottom of the hill

Since mass is present in every expression, it cancels out. Therefore, the actual mass of the train is not important in determining it's speed. You'll also notice that the actual path of the track is not important for this calculation, so a vertical drop would produce the same speed as a long ramp with the save elevation change. The only important variables for a first approximation are the height of the hill and the speed at the crest. To find the speed at the base of the hill knowing these values, the equation can be rewritten as:

Vb = sqrt(2gh + Vt^2)

Since the value will be in ft/s, multiply by (60 s/min)*(60 min/hr)*(0.0001894 mi/ft) = 0.682 to get MPH.

Using this equation, and assuming the speed of the lift is negligible, a 128 ft drop (the size of Twisted Colossus) would yield a speed of 61.9 MPH. However, this is only the theoretical speed, and a real roller coaster will always run slower. Other factors that will slow the ride include rolling resistance (which is affected by the wheel compound and the number of wheels on the track), friction (which is primarily where train mass and track length come into play), vibration (which is primarily due to the roughness of the ride) and air resistance (which is a more significant factor at higher speeds or on trains with a large frontal area). These values are very difficult to calculate without knowing the exact parameters of the train, so I will not go into more detail here. In the case of Twisted Colossus, I am guessing the reduced speed is primarily due to the first two factors, as nylon/polyurethane wheels deform significantly more than steel wheels do (hence why wooden coasters often seem to maintain speed better) and the RMC train design has more wheel assemblies than the previous Morgan trains had, thus increasing the quantity of moving parts and the amount of work done by friction. Also worth noting is that the speed statistic of the original Colossus (as well as statistics in general for older coasters) may not be 100% accurate due to less advanced measurement equipment.

We now return to your regularly scheduled discussion on Twisted Colossus's upgrades from the original concept art.

Vice wrote a review of the park. Sounds like an experience through the eyes of the gp. Some of it will make you shutter but I found it interesting for that reason

http://www.vice.com/read/chasing-adrenaline-and-childhood-memories-at-six-flags-magic-mountain-407?utm_source=vicefbus

Thanks everyone who has replied so far! This advice will be very handy for getting the most amount of rides in.

I will definitely be skipping Batman, I rode the original at Great America and I would be better off not wasting time on clones. To add to this, Green Lantern and Viper look super rough and not that fun, are they worth the wait at all?

How good are Apocalypse and Drop of Doom compared to some other things? I mean, I've hardly ridden any woodies as there very rare in the UK and all the UK drop towers are much smaller than Drop of Doom...

Finally, is Full Throttle or X2 definitely the rides to go to first? It depends on the day a bit I guess but I want to know as I would like to plan a route for the initial run!

Thanks everyone who has replied so far! This advice will be very handy for getting the most amount of rides in.

 

I will definitely be skipping Batman, I rode the original at Great America and I would be better off not wasting time on clones. To add to this, Green Lantern and Viper look super rough and not that fun, are they worth the wait at all?

 

How good are Apocalypse and Drop of Doom compared to some other things? I mean, I've hardly ridden any woodies as there very rare in the UK and all the UK drop towers are much smaller than Drop of Doom...

 

Finally, is YOLOcoaster or X2 definitely the rides to go to first? It depends on the day a bit I guess but I want to know as I would like to plan a route for the initial run!

We hated Green Lantern but it's worth a ride as it's unique. When we visited Apocalypse was one of the best rides in the park but I've heard it's gotten tough. Viper is not rough at all and I highly recommend it, we really enjoyed it.

Also, don't listen to anyone telling you to skip Ninja. Ninja is great and it has a unique layout which is nice to see in a Six Flags Park.

Personally I'd suggest getting the platinum Flash Pass, adding X2 and not skipping anything. When we did this we were easily able to ride all of the coasters on a day when the park closed at 8 with time for a double ride on Jet Stream and Lex Luthor, a ride on Sky Tower and more re-rides on our favorite non-clone rides... Apocalypse, Ninja and Tatsu.

Plus then you even have time to ride Batman, because clone or not it's one of the best rides in the park.

A final note on the speed... This ride goes directly into a bunny hop from the drop, meaning the center of mass never actually descends the entire drop, more like five feet above that. The train would have to be completely parallel to the ground to reach its max potential velocity.

Also, to clear it up, drop angle plays no factor in speed, other than variants of friction.

Ok now back to usual discussion

Thanks everyone who has replied so far! This advice will be very handy for getting the most amount of rides in.

 

I will definitely be skipping Batman, I rode the original at Great America and I would be better off not wasting time on clones. To add to this, Green Lantern and Viper look super rough and not that fun, are they worth the wait at all?

 

How good are Apocalypse and Drop of Doom compared to some other things? I mean, I've hardly ridden any woodies as there very rare in the UK and all the UK drop towers are much smaller than Drop of Doom...

 

Finally, is YOLOcoaster or X2 definitely the rides to go to first? It depends on the day a bit I guess but I want to know as I would like to plan a route for the initial run!

Yes, YOLOcoaster's line is the most consistently long, so it's best to do that first thing. X2's line will get shorter later in the day.

Lex Luthor is definitely worth doing. I won't spoil all the reasons why, but the best thing is if you get lucky and a superman car goes up the tower while you're near the top and the whole tower sways.

Apocalypse used to be great but is in pretty bad shape. If you never get to ride woodies at all or if there's no line, go for it; but otherwise you're not missing much.

Just a quick note. I rode

Apocalypse two weeks ago, and after its rehab, found it to be in much better shape.

I will definitely be skipping Batman, I rode the original at Great America and I would be better off not wasting time on clones. To add to this, Green Lantern and Viper look super rough and not that fun, are they worth the wait at all?

Personally I like the SFMM Batman a little more than the SFGAm Batman, but it's up to you. Green Lantern and Viper both have single rider so even if the line is long you can usually get on them very quickly (5-10 minutes). Green Lantern isn't rough, it is just uncomfortable due to the forces involved and their angle of application. It's worth riding only because it is such a unique experience. Viper is an above average Arrow looper that is a little rough but not too bad. I wouldn't consider it a must ride, but if you've got the time it is absolutely worth doing.

How good are Apocalypse and Drop of Doom compared to some other things? I mean, I've hardly ridden any woodies as there very rare in the UK and all the UK drop towers are much smaller than Drop of Doom...

When Apocalypse opened, I thought it was one of the best GCIs. The ride has become a bit rough, though not nearly as bad as some wooden coasters. However, if you've never been on a GCI or any other modern wooden coaster, it is absolutely worth a ride. Lex Luthor is the best basic drop tower I've been on, and the ride offers single rider as well so unless it's closed you should definitely ride it.

Finally, is YOLOcoaster or X2 definitely the rides to go to first? It depends on the day a bit I guess but I want to know as I would like to plan a route for the initial run!

As I said before, with Twisted Colossus things may change, but Full Throttle is always going to be a poor capacity coaster and is located right at the entrance, thus drawing a crowd it tends to maintain. Unless the queue is already overflowing when you arrive or you see tons of people running past it toward Goliath, I'd stop there first before proceeding to Twisted Colossus. I don't recommend going to X2 first anymore as the ride is delayed more often than not and the line does drop mid-afternoon (I'm guessing most visitors don't ride this one more than once).

Any update on the transition between the Blue and Green sides? I realize people were saying it has changed from the "twisty" version displayed in the POV (it sounds like they're installing a block brake section?) but I don't quite understand what's being done there...

Is it bad that I really like Viper? I found it to be quite smooth for an Arrow mega looper and it was actually a lot of fun.

I too love Viper, and IMO the way they maintain the ride, it will be around for at least another decade.

Back seat over that first drop is one of my favorite drops on any coaster. It really whips you over the top, then spins you tight left. You just don't see rides have a first drop like Viper anymore. And while it's not as smooth as B&M's (which is how I prefer it, actually) it really is a very good ride considering all the unique elements it has, especially for how old it is.

Is it bad that I really like Viper? I found it to be quite smooth for an Arrow mega looper and it was actually a lot of fun.

 

I too love Viper, and IMO the way they maintain the ride, it will be around for at least another decade.

 

Back seat over that first drop is one of my favorite drops on any coaster. It really whips you over the top, then spins you tight left. You just don't see rides have a first drop like Viper anymore. And while it's not as smooth as B&M's (which is how I prefer it, actually) it really is a very good ride considering all the unique elements it has, especially for how old it is.

Why would you rather ride something that isn't as smooth as other available rides? That doesn't really make any sense, unless you are a chiropractor and want more buisness.

Viper is more exciting than any B&M built in the last 10 years.

I too enjoy Viper a lot. The experience and forces come from an era before high-tech computer analysis and fabrication.

Remember, once the large Arrows are gone, we will NEVER have coasters like them again. I honestly feel that the coaster community should be worrying about preservation of rides like Viper and Vortex at KI and appreciate what are essentially the last of an era in coaster history.

Is it bad that I really like Viper? I found it to be quite smooth for an Arrow mega looper and it was actually a lot of fun.

 

I too love Viper, and IMO the way they maintain the ride, it will be around for at least another decade.

 

Back seat over that first drop is one of my favorite drops on any coaster. It really whips you over the top, then spins you tight left. You just don't see rides have a first drop like Viper anymore. And while it's not as smooth as B&M's (which is how I prefer it, actually) it really is a very good ride considering all the unique elements it has, especially for how old it is.

 

Why would you rather ride something that isn't as smooth as other available rides? That doesn't really make any sense, unless you are a chiropractor and want more buisness.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I like a variety of forces and experiences when I visit a park. If all you seek out are smooth coasters, you're going to miss some serious gems.

I too enjoy Viper a lot. The experience and forces come from an era before high-tech computer analysis and fabrication.

 

Remember, once the large Arrows are gone, we will NEVER have coasters like them again. I honestly feel that the coaster community should be worrying about preservation of rides like Viper and Vortex at KI and appreciate what are essentially the last of an era in coaster history.

i used to love viper. did some marathoning on it back when the park was daily thru september and you'd fine more people at costco before they opened. those were the days. i know i did like 57 rides in 4 hours or so. got off once to go pee. lol anyway, i can't take much of viper these days. vortex about killed my back this past summer. lol i just wanted the on ride photo since i had bought the day pass. so, either the rides aren't aging well, or i'm not aging well. probably a combination of both. haha

Is it bad that I really like Viper? I found it to be quite smooth for an Arrow mega looper and it was actually a lot of fun.

 

I too love Viper, and IMO the way they maintain the ride, it will be around for at least another decade.

 

Back seat over that first drop is one of my favorite drops on any coaster. It really whips you over the top, then spins you tight left. You just don't see rides have a first drop like Viper anymore. And while it's not as smooth as B&M's (which is how I prefer it, actually) it really is a very good ride considering all the unique elements it has, especially for how old it is.

 

Why would you rather ride something that isn't as smooth as other available rides? That doesn't really make any sense, unless you are a chiropractor and want more buisness.

I sometimes like coasters that throw you around a little bit as long as it's not excessive or painful. It's a fine line to walk but Viper falls into that category for me.

Vortex is awful though. That ride needs to die.

Twisted Colossus Construction Update

POV Video:

Twisted Colossus looks awesome

"Top Gun Stall" inversion looks crazy

Animation have meet reality.

“High Five” element

OMG

Super twisted.

Zero G Roll coming soon.

Mmm.....Chain

Today RMC installed chain on lift hill.

New vs Old

Pressure washing Twisted Colossus for new paint job.

Panorama view of Twisted Colossus.

Gearworks Theater look nice.

2015 Park Map & Guide

Twisted Colossus on map.

THE RIDDLER'S Revenge.

Revolution

Superman goose greet me out my car.

Dopey goose.

Hey what ride should go on next????

Selfie sticks are NOT PERMITTED AT SFMM.

Love this sign.

Nice update! Twisted Colossus is looking awesome! I really like the new colors on Scream. At first I wasn't sure, but they compliment TC really well.

I lol'd at the selfie stick thing. TBH they're actually pretty useful, though. My roommate has one and it's great for taking pictures without having to ask someone to take a one for you.

^Yes most of us have the cajones to ask somebody else to take a picture for us. Human interaction. It's a great thing

Colossus looks GREAT!!!! The Top Gun stall look like it will be a highlight of the ride.

Looking at the pics has me wondering just where the outward bank airtime hill thingy on the blue side will fit in. Maybe I'm just being paranoid but I'm hoping it wasn't taken out with the addition of the block brake. It was the part of the ride I was most looking foward to.

Looking at the pics has me wondering just where the outward bank airtime hill thingy on the blue side will fit in. Maybe I'm just being paranoid but I'm hoping it wasn't taken out with the addition of the block brake. It was the part of the ride I was most looking foward to.

Same, the ride would still be great without it, but with all these layout changes (which for the most part are great) I'm beginning to fear we won't see that epic turn.

^ & ^^ Don't worry, it's in there. Look closely at the picture of the turnaround (the one above the Mmm...Chain picture) and you can see a steel beam that is tilted for a reverse bank. The drop afterward will be much smaller (probably about ten feet), but the outward bank is going to be kept. I don't know why this one particular element is so anticipated compared to what else will be on the ride, but fear no longer.

Great update, berryfarm! I really cannot wait to ride this thing. I'm planning to visit the park in a couple weeks once spring break crowds die off and I'm really hoping I'll get to see this beautiful ride fully assembled.

Maybe not as much but it is gonna remain to have a bank!!!

Credits to OUR MOUNTAIN THRILL PARK

Great photos! The ride is looking awesome. I really hope the surrounding area works. That theater has had some pretty horrendous attractions come through...

I must say I am extremely impressed with the progress on this coaster. I was more excited for wicked cyclone while keeping up with the construction updates but after these recent photos, I'm leaning more towards TC. I cant wait for the tracking to be done! Has there been any word about any night lighting? It's be awesome if the trains had some sort of lighting so you could see them better in the dark.