California Great America (CGA) Discussion Thread

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Re: The California's Great America Discussion Thread

Postby QueerRudie » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:35 pm

Tmcdllr wrote:Lastly, they are certainly not going to remove MR from Knott's to put it in here, it's not even the same kind of shuttle loop and because of that I believe the track length/footer are not exactly the same.


Placing Fanboy/Schwarzkopf Junkie hat on first...

There is only one real difference between Montezooma's Revenge and Tidal Wave: The propulsion unit. Monte is the 'new' generation flywheel design, the Tidal wave, as was the prototype at KD (King Kobra) were the original weight-drop models.

RCDB lists multiple lengths of track, but this is not necessarily correct: Schwarzkopf.coaster.net, which is the encyclopedia of Schwarzkopf coasters, lists lengths as nearly identical- at 722 feet. However, it can be safely assumed that tracks may have been modified in park- but only to the tower ends. The base launch structures remained the same for all models.

Changing one from flywheel to weight-drop would be irrelevant, but one could replace (in theory- but NOT going to happen here!) Tidal wave with Monte. But I think the odds on that are like having a dual eclipse tommorow night here in AZ.

THe difference comes if your raise up one model over the other- It's an optical illusion that Monte looks different- as it's got so much more stuff going on around it to make it look like a different length. Schwarzkopf only did one variant on his shuttle loops- and that was the rather infamous WienerLooping shuttle loop- which in itself is actually a variant of the Katapult series of flywheel/power axle design systems.

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Re: The California's Great America Discussion Thread

Postby Angry_Gumball » Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:51 pm

The whole "Rip this and that ride out" idea would be a bad idea...why rip out something that's already there only to possibly have trouble putting in something new thanks to our dear sweet offices? And what would that do to GA's coaster collection? Even replacing Invertigo with another coaster isn't really an increase in ride collection, just swapping one thing out for another.

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Re: The California's Great America Discussion Thread

Postby Tmcdllr » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:32 pm

QueerRudie wrote:
Tmcdllr wrote:Lastly, they are certainly not going to remove MR from Knott's to put it in here, it's not even the same kind of shuttle loop and because of that I believe the track length/footer are not exactly the same.


Placing Fanboy/Schwarzkopf Junkie hat on first...

There is only one real difference between Montezooma's Revenge and Tidal Wave: The propulsion unit. Monte is the 'new' generation flywheel design, the Tidal wave, as was the prototype at KD (King Kobra) were the original weight-drop models.

RCDB lists multiple lengths of track, but this is not necessarily correct: Schwarzkopf.coaster.net, which is the encyclopedia of Schwarzkopf coasters, lists lengths as nearly identical- at 722 feet. However, it can be safely assumed that tracks may have been modified in park- but only to the tower ends. The base launch structures remained the same for all models.

Changing one from flywheel to weight-drop would be irrelevant, but one could replace (in theory- but NOT going to happen here!) Tidal wave with Monte. But I think the odds on that are like having a dual eclipse tommorow night here in AZ.

THe difference comes if your raise up one model over the other- It's an optical illusion that Monte looks different- as it's got so much more stuff going on around it to make it look like a different length. Schwarzkopf only did one variant on his shuttle loops- and that was the rather infamous WienerLooping shuttle loop- which in itself is actually a variant of the Katapult series of flywheel/power axle design systems.

R.D. "Schwarzkopf forever" Sussmann


Thank you for clearing that up. I wasn't sure but I thought I read somewhere there was a difference in track length. I always liked the weight drop version more, don't know why really, maybe because of how the train was katapulted, very neat rides....both of them.

I never take off my fanboy Schwarzkopf hat....never!

Speaking of which, doesn't his son run the company now and if so, have they built any new coasters?
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Re: The California's Great America Discussion Thread

Postby XYZ » Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:23 am

Flagg O'Dim wrote:I'd say the new CEO's visit to CGA is a positive gesture. I wonder if he is touring all the Cedar Fair parks, or if he specifically chose CGA to visit?

In other Cedar Fair news, they recently trademarked the name "Stinger" for a future attraction. NewsPlusNotes seems to think that it is for Invertigo, though. Full article here: http://newsplusnotes.blogspot.com/2011/06/stinger-speculation.html



I saw Cedar Fair's trademarks and the last two they put in are StratoSoar and Stinger. I was wondering what Stinger is but it probably is Invertigo's new name.
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Re: The California's Great America Discussion Thread

Postby XYZ » Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:27 am

Tmcdllr wrote:
QueerRudie wrote:
Tmcdllr wrote:Lastly, they are certainly not going to remove MR from Knott's to put it in here, it's not even the same kind of shuttle loop and because of that I believe the track length/footer are not exactly the same.


Placing Fanboy/Schwarzkopf Junkie hat on first...

There is only one real difference between Montezooma's Revenge and Tidal Wave: The propulsion unit. Monte is the 'new' generation flywheel design, the Tidal wave, as was the prototype at KD (King Kobra) were the original weight-drop models.

RCDB lists multiple lengths of track, but this is not necessarily correct: Schwarzkopf.coaster.net, which is the encyclopedia of Schwarzkopf coasters, lists lengths as nearly identical- at 722 feet. However, it can be safely assumed that tracks may have been modified in park- but only to the tower ends. The base launch structures remained the same for all models.

Changing one from flywheel to weight-drop would be irrelevant, but one could replace (in theory- but NOT going to happen here!) Tidal wave with Monte. But I think the odds on that are like having a dual eclipse tommorow night here in AZ.

THe difference comes if your raise up one model over the other- It's an optical illusion that Monte looks different- as it's got so much more stuff going on around it to make it look like a different length. Schwarzkopf only did one variant on his shuttle loops- and that was the rather infamous WienerLooping shuttle loop- which in itself is actually a variant of the Katapult series of flywheel/power axle design systems.

R.D. "Schwarzkopf forever" Sussmann


Thank you for clearing that up. I wasn't sure but I thought I read somewhere there was a difference in track length. I always liked the weight drop version more, don't know why really, maybe because of how the train was katapulted, very neat rides....both of them.

I never take off my fanboy Schwarzkopf hat....never!

Speaking of which, doesn't his son run the company now and if so, have they built any new coasters?


I thought when Anton Schwarzkopf died in the early 2000s that the company was sold to Intamin.
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Coaster Credits: 110 (89 steel, 21 wood); Last Coaster Credit: Raptor (CP) [8/22/14]; Last Park Credit: Waldameer [8/21/14]
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Re: The California's Great America Discussion Thread

Postby Tmcdllr » Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:57 pm

Well new Schwarzkopf trains were unveiled recently, like about 8 years ago...

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I always like looking at those ^


And according to schwarzkopf.coaster.net

Will we ever see a new looping-rollercoaster with the Schwarzkopf logo shining on...?

In fact Wieland Schwarzkopf, Antons son, used to be in the amusement business since 1984, too. His company begun with the delivery of spare parts for Schwarzkopf rides. Trading used rides, and roconditioning them, was an addition.

Thereafter they started distributing a variety of rides from different manufacturers. Examples given:

*

BHS Railbound rides
*

Barbieri - Autoscooter cars
*

Dotto - Road trains
*

SBF - Children's carousels
*

New Wave Rides - Waterslides

Wieland Schwarzkopf colaborated with the Gerstlauer company, which is the proud owner of the former Schwarzkopf factory. The first two rides were "The Waltz" and "Bavarian Express".
Later on, the "Dancing Pavilion" and some newer versions of the "Polyp" (especially the "Sombrero" edition) came aboard.


In conjunction with the firm BHS, Wieland Schwarzkopf brought a new type of "Raft Ride" onto the market with the result of some installations in the far east. To my knowledge, these Raft's have been built by the firm Hafema in Gödenroth, Germany.

In 1993, the new steel version of the "Wild Mouse" coaster was introduced. This type of coaster was very popular in it's origin wooden version that time and so should this one, too. Two units, which were a mirror image of each other, were purchased by the german showmen company Kinzler. Some more examples have been built by the BHS.

Lots of rumors were on the run. There should be something new like a looping-polyp. And yes, the "Absoluter" is it indeed. Untill today, only one has been built. This prototype was purchased by the german showmen company Kinzler. They started operation of their "Sound Factory" in 1997.


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Today Wieland Schwarzkopf is offering compact coasters similar to the well known units that his father once built.
On the IAAPA exhibition 1999, in Atlanta, USA, a new coaster train was introdused. Based on the traditional trains, but with new seats (as used on the "Absoluter") and a new outfit. Customers in the first degree should be owners of Schwarzkopf coasters, that want to replace their old trains. On the IAAPA exhibition 2000, in Atlanta, USA, Wieland Schwarzkopf presented an safety-overhauled car of the "The Texas Tornado" (former "Thriller") with new seats and safety restrains. Customers in the first degree should be owners of older Schwarzkopf coasters, that want to put new seats / restarins into their existing trains.
ATTENTION: Please note also the new wheel-assemblies.



And this is according to Intamin

In the early years they (Intamin) also represented Schwarzkopf, the leader at the time in Roller Coasters and high quality Amusement Rides. They took a leading role in the relationship by commissioning and financing the development of new coasters including the first steel coaster with a real loop which went to Six Flags Magic Mountain ( and which took a starring role in the film ‘Roller Coaster’ ).
Following the demise of Schwarzkopf, they assured the continued support of their clients by acquiring the rights to Schwarzkopf rides.
At this time they had developed a strong brand in the market and were busy developing their own range of rides including such favorites as the Rapids Ride, Barnstormer, Swiss Bob, Stand Up Coaster and many more. A look at the list of amusement rides found around the world will quickly identify the company’s importance as the major innovator and supplier of rides to the amusement industry.
This drive to innovate and stay at the head of the industry continues unabated under the current management. A network of after-sales and sales support offices has been put in place.


So I guess that answers it.

Anton is also on Facebook, well sort of.

Anton Schwarzkopf on FB
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Re: The California's Great America Discussion Thread

Postby ABW » Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:55 pm

^Interesting. It seems that they are sort of just being dragged along with other companies these days as their have really been no new additions from Schwarzkopf.

Is anyone planning on going to the fireworks celebration tomorrow? Has anybody who has been there in the past know if it will be very crowded late in the day? Thanks if have anyone has information. :)
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Re: The California's Great America Discussion Thread

Postby Angry_Gumball » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:17 pm

I haven't gone on the 4th of July weekend but seeing how much more busy it was last Sunday as opposed to the same time last season, I would definitely expect even more crowds. I could be wrong though.

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Re: The California's Great America Discussion Thread

Postby jray21 » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:21 pm

Hell on earth. That's how it was just a few years ago.
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Re: The California's Great America Discussion Thread

Postby QueerRudie » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:37 pm

RE: All the Schwarzkopf stuff-

It's true, Schwarzkopf's name lives on, in ways we don't quite imagine. His projects were part of BHS and subsequent companies, and Wieland did for a while offer his designs. However, we can thank Him every time we get onto an Intamin coaster these days, as it was his original Heartline design track structure (ShockWave, SFOT, Mindbender, SFOG) that gives us all the wonderful Intamin designs to this day- save a handful along the way, its still the system used for most of their projects.

As for the Shuttle Loops- it always seems different, at least launch wise, as the flywheel tends to 'accelerate' more smoothly- rather than the weight drop models, which simply went "BANG" and you're off. However, the mechanicals on them, as fun as they are, are a nightmare! Cables and such tend to wear out faster due to the physical stress on them.

If anything, there are a handful of people left who could recreate a Schwarzkopf coaster to His specifications. Weiland is one, but he's semi-retired himself nowadays, and of course Werner Stengel, who consulted with Anton on quite a few of His rides. I would LOVE to see recreations of some of His designs that remain unbuilt- or even new models of some of His greatest works.

Intamin could do a Schwarzkopf trackplan using their existing rail easily- as it's incredibly close to His own track designs!

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