Six Flags Corporate Discussion Thread

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Re: Six Flags Bankruptcy & Restructuring Discussion

Postby SFA Regular » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:57 pm

PriestofSyrinx wrote:If there was an attempt at a merger, I dont see how it would go through the US Trust laws. Too much of a Monopoly...

But if it does happen, I would prefer CedarFair to run the parks, yet adopt Six Flags new policy of Rehabing old/unpopular rides, and making them popular again.

But Cedar Point/Kings Island and Magic Mountain/Great Adventure under one umbrella? No way. I dont see it happening. :roll:


I agree with you on letting them rehab a lot of Six Flags older rides. Only thing I may not agree on is it being a monopoly. Correct me if I'm wrong but would they being trying to take over if it were going to be a Monopoly? They must have thought it threw a while before putting forth a merge if they get Cedar Fair.

But other than that, a lot of the rides could be rehabbed under Cedar Fair's management. For example, Jokers Jinx at Six Flags America and Poltergeist at Six Flags Fiesta Texas. If the Warner Bros agreement is dropped, then I could see them giving it the same kind of theme that (Flight of Fear) has and putting both those rides inside. The rides don't really need rehab, but its a good way to make them popular again. I just hope that if the Warner Bros theme gets dropped, then the rides will take on a new theme. For example, Dark Knight indoor coaster could take on a haunted house theme.

I take it that whats you meant when you said rehab older rides?
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Re: Six Flags Bankruptcy & Restructuring Discussion

Postby PriestofSyrinx » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:59 pm

^ Im thinking that it would be a bit of a monopoly as it would be the only Regional park operator in the US ( I dont consider Herschand and Blackstone to be regional operators). But one could argue the XM-Sirius Satellite radio merger as being a monopoly, yet since its more of a niche market (Like Theme Parks) it wouldn't matter to the Trust Judges.

And yes, that is exactly what I meant for the Rehabs. Flight of Fear, Stunt Coaster, Mean Streak/Hurler/Grizzly could all benefit from the Six Flags rehabs. Not so much rehab, but revitalization! =)

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Re: Six Flags Bankruptcy & Restructuring Discussion

Postby SFA Regular » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:23 pm

PriestofSyrinx wrote:^ Im thinking that it would be a bit of a monopoly as it would be the only Regional park operator in the US ( I dont consider Herschand and Blackstone to be regional operators). But one could argue the XM-Sirius Satellite radio merger as being a monopoly, yet since its more of a niche market (Like Theme Parks) it wouldn't matter to the Trust Judges.

And yes, that is exactly what I meant for the Rehabs. Flight of Fear, Stunt Coaster, Mean Streak/Hurler/Grizzly could all benefit from the Six Flags rehabs. Not so much rehab, but revitalization! =)


I would rather Cedar Fair rehab the coasters. Six Flags is not likely to rehab the coasters in the smaller parks like Jokers Jinx and Poltergeist. Cedar Fair would be more likely to do it because they are all about thrill and ride performance. But here is my prediction on what the Cedar Fair management would do if they acquired the Six Flags properties.

They would do just like Mark Shapiro did and tour all of the parks. They would look at every aspect of it and make a decision on whats worth keeping and what the park needs. For example, if a ride is lacking speed, they would do the maintenance work and buy the parts to get it working in fine order again. They probably would have done this for Batman and Robin: The Chiller. As for the fall season, I think Cedar Fair could also spice the life in that area. When touring the parks, their managers could easily map out areas where haunted houses would be work. The season pass may change a bit. I could see them offering a VIP pass that allows holders to enter the park early and also grants them extended ride time when the park closes. I've always thought that the Premium Pass should have done that but they never introduced that benefit. Their will be a lot of improvements under Cedar Fair, in my opinion.

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Re: Six Flags Bankruptcy & Restructuring Discussion

Postby SFDallas » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:53 pm

I believe that Cedar fair is being given WAY too much credit on this thread. Cedar point is a nice park but everything CF touches just seems to me to be "souless" and stark. IMHO. I really doubt that any of this will happen. It is much more likely that SF will emerge with the original restructuring plan and that CF will vote down the Apollo bid. When SF emerges from bankruptcy- it will be interesting to see how they handle things when they are not strapped for cash. I expect things to improve greatly.

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Re: Six Flags Bankruptcy & Restructuring Discussion

Postby SFA Regular » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:31 pm

SFDallas wrote:I believe that Cedar fair is being given WAY too much credit on this thread. Cedar point is a nice park but everything CF touches just seems to me to be "souless" and stark. IMHO. I really doubt that any of this will happen. It is much more likely that SF will emerge with the original restructuring plan and that CF will vote down the Apollo bid. When SF emerges from bankruptcy- it will be interesting to see how they handle things when they are not strapped for cash. I expect things to improve greatly.


I have to say that I disagree. Everything that I have been telling people for the longest time has happened. When Dan Snyder first bought the company I knew things were going down the hole. Yes the company was in debt, but the new management he put in did not give people too many reasons to continue to visit the parks. So then I predicted that a company will come in and try and gain Six Flags back, and now look at it. Bondholders are fighting for the company. I don't think it was a very good move to stop building thrill rides. Most of the Six Flags goers were thrill seekers. They could have easily just built smaller thrill rides, rather than switching to an all family theme. The only big surprise that this current management has been promising us is 2011 for the 50th year anniversary. I have been crossing my fingers that it will be new coasters for all of the parks. But something tells me that it may not be as a great as we all think. Again, it hasn't happened yet, so I still have my fingers crossed for 2011.

As for the Cedar Fair management. What I predict is that Apollo will make Cedar Fair an offer that they can't refuse. Plus with Cedar being in debt, what other choice do they have? Next, Apollo will also make Six Flags the same deal and claim that merging the two companies will improve the parks. Dan Snyder, Six Flags owner, is not present at any of the bankruptcy meetings. Reason why is because Avenue Capital Management, figured out that he has taken resources from Six Flags Inc and manipulated the licensing deals that the board of directory made with Dick Clark Productions to make himself richer. This was all public information that Avenue Capital, posted. Once it gets down to that, it won't be hard for Apollo to gain control of Six Flags Inc. Currently, Jeffy Speed, the Six Flags CFO is fighting the battle.

I really want to hear Dan Snyder's reason for the licensing deals that were made with Six Flags Inc and Dick Clark Productions. Based on Avenue Capital Management, that's where things started to look weird.
Last edited by SFA Regular on Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:36 pm.

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Re: Six Flags Bankruptcy & Restructuring Discussion

Postby jray21 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:34 pm

^^I agree. Hasn't Cedar Fair owned Knott's for a long time? While they have gotten a few new rides in that time, overall, the park has consistently gone downhill.

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Re: Six Flags Bankruptcy & Restructuring Discussion

Postby SFA Regular » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:45 pm

jray21 wrote:^^I agree. Hasn't Cedar Fair owned Knott's for a long time? While they have gotten a few new rides in that time, overall, the park has consistently gone downhill.


Yes, that may be so, but look at parks that they currently own. Kings Dominion and Kings Island are still doing good in my opinion. I went to Kings Dominion's Halloween nights, and it was a true success. They had like eight or nine haunted houses and they were all free. The park was packed, but the long lines seemed to move pretty quickly. Rides operate very good and park staff is still friendly. Believe me, I thought the same thing when they first bought the Paramount's parks. I thought, a lot of things would change, and the park would not be as great. After visiting so many times, I heard a lot of good things from park staff and how they were trying their hardest to keep things running just like Paramount's did. From what I have seen, they have done a good job.

One thing I did like about Cedar Fair is that they stopped Flight of Fear from being permanently shut down and moved to Canada's Wonderland. That was a good move on the management's part because, its a popular ride and people still love it. For its age, they seem to do a good job keeping the thing running smoothly, and operating just as good if not better than the rest of the Premier Launch rides.

My question to you all is why Six Flags does not do this. Why couldn't the new management work with Batman and Robin: The Chiller. A lot of people still miss that ride and are upset that they removed it for Dark Knight. They did the same thing for Iron Eagle and Two-Face at Six Flags America. Both very good rides but the companies new plan did not involve fixing the rides or replacing them with smaller rides. Cedar Fair, from what I have seen will make the effort to keep rides up and running. If they don't keep them they replace them with something els.

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Re: Six Flags Bankruptcy & Restructuring Discussion

Postby Millenniumfan94 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:28 pm

Both CF and SF have there pro's. Seriously though I have a feeling that Six Flags would wreck most of CF's parks so I really would not want this to happen.

Cedar Flags?

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Re: Six Flags Bankruptcy & Restructuring Discussion

Postby SFA Regular » Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:26 pm

Millenniumfan94 wrote:Both CF and SF have there pro's. Seriously though I have a feeling that Six Flags would wreck most of CF's parks so I really would not want this to happen.

Cedar Flags?


You all are looking at it the wrong way. This is how its going to work. Cedar Fair's management has been much more successful than Six Flags. If there is a merger, its inevitable that Apollo will let Cedar Fair's management stay and Six Flags management will get the boot. Based on the odd licensing agreement that Dan Snyder did with Six Flags and Dick Clark; would you want that management to be hanging around. I'm not attacking the management, I'm just providing public information and opinions that were given by Avenue Capital Management.

Here is my opinion on why the current management is odd to have running the company. The company was acquired by Washington Redskins owner, Daniel Snyder, when he won a proxy battle over the former CEO of Six Flags. Based on his background, he does not have experience in theme parks. His company that got him started was Snyder Communications, and in 1999 he bought the Washington Redskins. When he bought Six Flags he did not make himself the owner. Instead he makes Mark Shapiro the CEO. Shortly after that, he buys Dick and Clark Productions Inc and Johhny Rockets. None of the things he buys has anything to do with theme parks. I would want my owner to have a good knowledge in theme parks. Atleast the people from Premier Parks that took over Six Flags Inc had experience in theme parks.

Again, I am basing my opinion on the public information about the current management. Even with the bankruptcy being a factor; I have not seen anything monumental put into works with the current management of Six Flags. Cedar Fair puts together monumental projects and get monumental crowds. This is why I say their management would give Six Flags the boot.

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Re: Six Flags Bankruptcy & Restructuring Discussion

Postby ginzo » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:00 pm

SFA Regular wrote:If there is a merger, its inevitable that Apollo will let Cedar Fair's management stay and Six Flags management will get the boot.


Why do you think that Apollo is going to have anything to do with it? They're only interested in getting CF for a bargain basement price. And the investors are having none of it.
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