Waldameer Discussion Thread

[cal1br3ttoWhy do I still have a donkey title???]

Are the cards non-expiring? That seems to be widespread nowadays among parks, FECs and carnival companies, almost like an "excuse" for not offering refunds. I could see it being an annoyance for non-locals who may not benefit, but that's not really the park's problem. I still have valid tickets for faraway parks here at home, myself.

One thing people could do (though I understand many may not want to bother) is actually figure out the prices of whatever they want to do next, then load their cards to meet that exact amount. I often do that at carnivals (though getting denied at kiddie coasters messes up the math a bit). It sounds like there are plenty of kiosks that could make that more convenient, and accepting cash is helpful as well. Hopefully I'm understanding the system correctly.

[molemaster43A not-so-awesome title]

I'm wondering, where is the Ravine Flyer II on everybody's favorite wooden coaster lists? Thanks.

[Rollercoaster RiderI own the website www.donkey.com]

Ravine Flyer's In My Top 10. It's tough for me to rank them.

[Airtime&GravityWhy do I still have a donkey title???]

Ravine Flyer is my third favorite wooden coaster, behind Shivering Timbers and El Toro. I was amazed at how well it was running when I rode it last year, especially after seeing how Voyage and Hades went to hell.

[TJinPghI Guess Donkeys Are Okay]

From a current employee perspective who is not closely tied to ownership, the cashless system has actually been a huge success. The gradual implementation with the rides in 2010 and games in 2011 has been so successful that the system is moving forward into concessions. Just from observations on lunch breaks alone, Wally Cards are already a popular payment option for concessions. Some people will initially complain out of fear of change, but all in all they will adapt.

My comment has nothing to do with fear of change.

I'm well aware of the usage of the system for rides over the last couple of years. And, other than when the scanners don't work (more often then most would like to admit), it's not an issue.

People were already wearing wristbands. It's not a meaningful change.

The point of my comment is a simple one. And it's based on far too many years of going to amusement parks with a preset number in my head of what I was going to spend only to go over it year after year.

Most people will initially load up the cards with what they think they're going to spend. When that's done, no matter how many kiosks you put in the park, it's far less convenient to leave your spot in line and go fill up the card again than it is to simply reach into your pocket for more money.

The card is a good means of supplementing cash because it requires you to carry less of it. The moment somebody tells you that you're going to have to figure out to the exact penny how much to put on the card, else get cheated of the overage at the end of the day, it starts leaving a bit more of a sour taste in one's mouth

Will I stop going to Waldameer because of it? No.

Will it affect how much I'm likely to spend? Yes.

I won't use the card for food, because it's far more convienient for me to use a credit card (which costs them money).

IF I choose to play games, I'll use it because I have to. But it will be based on what I initially figure I'll spend, which is always a good bit less than what I normally do.

I really have no desire to keep running back and forth recharging the card a couple of bucks at a time, knowing it's the only way to keep my money at the end of the day.

In my opinion, cashless is like Chuck E. Cheese in which when I run out of tokens, I have to either: A) stop playing, or B) get more tokens. Of course this is a basic example, but they seem to be ok when it comes to their games.

Can't speak to Chuck E. Cheese. I haven't been to one in years. I can say this, though. Of the various arcades in the region, the ones that only took tokens went out of business before the ones that took both.

Take that for what it's worth.

Additionally, last season Waldameer did have options at the midway games where you could purchase cards with cash already charged with points. I do not know if such options will be available this season on concessions or games, BUT Waldameer has also gone the extra step and installed several kiosks to purchase and recharge cards using CASH or plastic bringing their total up to 12 purchase/recharge areas. These are in addition to the admission booths and a couple other concession stands where cards are available for purchase.

That's fine. Like I said, I'm not opposed to the cards.

Just point me to the booth that refunds whatever I have left on the card (even if refunds are only given once the balance drops below a certain figure, like $10) and I'll have no complaints.

I truly trust what the Nelsons and Gormans are doing with Waldameer. They continue to asses and explore new practices with this cashless system to make it such a success. Besides, when it comes to employee/customer theft, is it fair that some people can get away with free rides/games/food/etc. while the rest of us pay our hard earned dollars? I choose fairness.

With all due respect, you're creating a false choice.

Wristbands with bar codes in no way stopped operators from giving free rides. I saw too many instances last year where the scanners weren't working properly and people were just ushered through. So, if it can be done when they aren't working right it can be done when they are.

The answer to your question is, no, it's not fair to make us pay when others don't. No more than a sytem that requires us to give up our hard earned dollars at the end of the day if we don't use them all before the park closes.

Either way, you're being punished.

I was and still am skeptical of this system, but they only way to confirm or put to rest concerns is to give it a chance with an open mind. So far, my skepticism has been greatly reduced.

Like I said, it has nothing to do with skepticism or even having a problem with the cards.

It comes down to simple facts. If I run out of day before I run out of money on the card, I'm going to lose it. Whether it's $1 or $50.

[TJinPghI Guess Donkeys Are Okay]

Are the cards non-expiring? That seems to be widespread nowadays among parks, FECs and carnival companies, almost like an "excuse" for not offering refunds. I could see it being an annoyance for non-locals who may not benefit, but that's not really the park's problem. I still have valid tickets for faraway parks here at home, myself.

You could look at it that way. But, that's a pretty shotty way of doing business. The only way that you get regular customers in anything is to treat the non-regulars well enough to make them want to be regulars.

One thing people could do (though I understand many may not want to bother) is actually figure out the prices of whatever they want to do next, then load their cards to meet that exact amount. I often do that at carnivals (though getting denied at kiddie coasters messes up the math a bit). It sounds like there are plenty of kiosks that could make that more convenient, and accepting cash is helpful as well. Hopefully I'm understanding the system correctly.

As I understand it from Waldameer's blog, other than the arcade and the merry go round ticket booth, it will be a completely cashless system.

You can use a credit/debit card for food, aparently. Which is fine. But must use the card for games and cash is accepted nowhere else in the park.

Yes, I can certainly ignore the inconvenience and load up the card before going to a particular game. My point there is that amusement parks make a LOT of money on the impulse to keep playing a game that you've been losing, believing that you'll win if you keep playing. At which point, by the time you do win (assuming you win at all), they no longer care.

The problem with doing it the way you mentioned is that the only way to keep playing is to leave the line, recharge the card and come back. At which point, the impulse to keep playing is likely gone.

Like I said, I'm not opposed to the cards. And, I frankly like that they are finally allowing the use of credit cards to get food.

I simply prefer a system that allows me to reclaim any unused funds at the end of the day and a grape flavored fruit chew system that still permits the usage of cash.

One size fits all solutions usually don't.

[ajfeliceThis B&M donkey is so smooth!]

For the record I was not accusing anyone personally on this site as resistent to change. When I say people are resistent, I am referring to what I believe is that us humans, in general, are creatures of habit. All I was trying to do was address my personal observations from being at the park for an entire summer, and combining that with concerns expressed here. I understand concerns, and I have them too, but I do trust Waldameer's decision for the total cashless implementation until I have reason to believe otherwise.

Let me clarify my point about "free rides" that wasn't made very understandable on my part. Before the cashless system, wristbands varied by color based on Combo Pass, Rides Only, Water Slides Only, Water World General Admission, and reserved picnics (so food servers/event coordinators knew who was a part of each picnic). To add to that, the colors and shapes on each band varied daily. Therefore, besides having an operator memorize which colors/symbols was for the day, they were supposed to check that each guest had the proper wristband (pain in the butt when people wear long sleeves, walk fast, etc). Strip tickets also had to be collected if the guest used the pay by the ride option. Waldameer had no idea how many guests paid proper admission because an operator could either accept the incorrect amount or no tickets at all, or people with no forms of admission could easily slip by. With all that said, someone could make the argument that Waldameer needs better trained, more ethical operators. However, to regulate this would be extremely tedious and borderline micro-management (besides, imagine the employee turnover during a season alone). True, the bar code system is not perfect by any means, but I can confidently say 99% of those free rides are eliminated because a wristband is automatically determined valid and a guest will always be forced to present proper admission option (otherwise, the turnstiles don't unlock). I'm sure some things slipped through the cracks with some glitches, but they were few and far between and resolved quickly.

Next, I understand even more reading the posts on here alone how not having a refund option for unused points can be inconvenient/unfair especially for out of towners. Guess what? Early into the season I will make it an objective to talk to some of management about this issue, and see what their justification for this policy is.

[HerculesThe Resident Vegetarian Hippie]

Are the cards non-expiring?

The cards do not expire.

[kidcoaster 2"Excuse me, miss, may I pound my large rooster into your donkey?"]

Here is a video I took of steve's presentation at coasterbash.

A few interesting things he discusses.
- North end was a success
- Happy Swing new for 2012
- New magnetic brakes for Comet and 2 train operations
- New L. Ruth express train
- Expanded maintenance shop
- They got the EPA laws rewritten so they no longer have restrictions.
- Beach front expansion in the next several years.
- New Ramp over the lazy river.
- New guest service building
- New images of america book coming out next year.


YouTube Videolink

[TJinPghI Guess Donkeys Are Okay]

For the record I was not accusing anyone personally on this site as resistent to change. When I say people are resistent, I am referring to what I believe is that us humans, in general, are creatures of habit. All I was trying to do was address my personal observations from being at the park for an entire summer, and combining that with concerns expressed here. I understand concerns, and I have them too, but I do trust Waldameer's decision for the total cashless implementation until I have reason to believe otherwise.

Understood. And, my comments on the cashless system was not based on an impression that they were doing it to cheat somebody or to be malicious in any way.

It was simply an objection to the way it was being implemented.

Let me clarify my point about "free rides" that wasn't made very understandable on my part. Before the cashless system, wristbands varied by color based on Combo Pass, Rides Only, Water Slides Only, Water World General Admission, and reserved picnics (so food servers/event coordinators knew who was a part of each picnic). To add to that, the colors and shapes on each band varied daily. Therefore, besides having an operator memorize which colors/symbols was for the day, they were supposed to check that each guest had the proper wristband (pain in the butt when people wear long sleeves, walk fast, etc).

I can certainly see the advantage of the current barcoded wrist bands from an employee standpoint.

Like I said, I have no real problem with them. Although, the need to have your wrist band scanned every time you go from the Waldameer portion of the park to the Waterworld portion has been known to create a bit of a bottleneck as opposed to having an attendant there who can simply glance to see that you have the correct color band.

Strip tickets also had to be collected if the guest used the pay by the ride option. Waldameer had no idea how many guests paid proper admission because an operator could either accept the incorrect amount or no tickets at all, or people with no forms of admission could easily slip by. With all that said, someone could make the argument that Waldameer needs better trained, more ethical operators.

You could. And, from a customer standpoint it shouldn't be me who is inconvienienced for the sake of an employee issue.

That said, loss prevention is always a part of any business and the way they dealt with that particular issue doesn't bother me, so long as the readers are actually working properly.

However, to regulate this would be extremely tedious and borderline micro-management (besides, imagine the employee turnover during a season alone). True, the bar code system is not perfect by any means, but I can confidently say 99% of those free rides are eliminated because a wristband is automatically determined valid and a guest will always be forced to present proper admission option (otherwise, the turnstiles don't unlock). I'm sure some things slipped through the cracks with some glitches, but they were few and far between and resolved quickly.

I'd be curious to know if they'e had any issues with attempts to counterfeit the bands. Barcodes are relatively easy to duplicate.

Next, I understand even more reading the posts on here alone how not having a refund option for unused points can be inconvenient/unfair especially for out of towners. Guess what? Early into the season I will make it an objective to talk to some of management about this issue, and see what their justification for this policy is.

That's certainly all I could ask from you, personally.

I could certainly make assumptions as to the justification of a no refund policy. And, they are not alone in implementing it.

As somebody who has worked in retail, it's typically the policy of retail stores to not refund the excess of gift cards. Though some will once the balance gets below a certain figure.

This, however, is why most people don't use gift cards for their day to day purchases unless it's a place they shop at frequently enough to allow them to use whatever's left. And, gift cards don't eliminate the ability to pay for things some other way, which mandates the need to guess at the exact total somebody is going to spend.

Here is a video I took of steve's presentation at coasterbash.

A few interesting things he discusses.
- North end was a success
- Happy Swing new for 2012
- New magnetic brakes for Comet and 2 train operations
- New L. Ruth express train
- Expanded maintenance shop
- They got the EPA laws rewritten so they no longer have restrictions.
- Beach front expansion in the next several years.
- New Ramp over the lazy river.
- New guest service building
- New images of america book coming out next year.

Nice to know about thoughts on a future beach expansion.

Waldameer used that property years ago for a beach club. They had an escalator going up and down the hill if memory serves.

There's a lot more land down there than it looks on the map. Could put an awful lot of stuff down there.

Wouldn't mind seeing them put in a water coaster.